Harvest & Curing no flush and white ash

[tripaholic88]

Nice! that early, its not unusual if it is a bit harsh, chlorophyll is the cause. That's why a 2 week cure taste so good! Peak of cure i think is around the 30 day mark. So the second jar is always better!

yea pop i was amazed when i started breaking the buds up and smelt that familiar smell! i can only imagine how this will be in 2 weeks! i still have about .7 of concentrate that i made from her that im going to use so i keep my hands off the pretty buds! do you need a hygrometer in your jars? i only have 1 and i dont know if it will fit in a quart jar.. and if it does it wont leave me with much room in my jars.. im SUPER low on funds at the moment which is why i had to chop my girl early. i should be able to get a hygrometer in the next 5 days or so... if your in the states where would you recomend i pick up a hygrometer for my jars? or should i just say the hell with it and get the bovedas?

 

[HashMaster]

Yep, convincing people of this is just like proving the world's not flat........... and there are still those who believe it!

That's funny pop22, because I find there are still those who think the world is round.

(I'll save someone the trouble of googling that, the earth is oblate spheroid)

There was an interesting smart ass post in that link where someone posted that every cup winner had been flushed, which got me thinking..... so I thought what better way to find out more than to look at it from that end.

That led me to a rather impressive list of cups and awards on the advanced nutrient site that were won by growing with their products.

So here is a company that would lose money if everyone flushed, or they could make more money by telling people to use their products till the end and not flush.

So I called them assuming they would verify your assumption, if for no other reason than to sell more product.

After asking customer service about awards and flushing or not flushing, imagine my surprise when I was put in contact with an employee who had won several of their awards listed on their awards page !

So... I asked him the very basic question of to flush or not to flush.

He proceeded to go off on a tangent about all the scientific studies and reasons and proof why flushing is an absolute must.... it was all way over my head as he was talking at an advanced botany professors level.... but if your interested in the science aspect of it they have a toll free number to call.

The last thing I was going to ask him was if this was his personal view or the official company stance, and he said it was both.

Then I thought to ask him if it was medium specific and he said no, the science of it is plant specific and that he grows in soil, hydro, pro mix, etc.

So in the end does it change anything ? No.

You keep doing what works for you and since I (and obviously others) can taste a difference I will keep doing what I've been doing for 50 years.

For anyone else I still suggest a few side by side grows and decide for yourself.

 

[tripaholic88]

yea @HashMaster untill this is or if there is ever a way to see it on paper its all up in the air... i do believe genetics of the plant has alot to do with it all along with the cure obv... im just gonna have to do it when i run 2 of the same strain and find out.. BUT i can say i AM happy with the "emergency" chop on my LSD-25 with going straight into the bag,2 days bag drying and a quick run in my food dehydrator i use for drying my mushies. i can only imagine what its gonna be like when its fully cured!:drool:

 

[pop22]

This is a post from YarraSparra on THC Farmer that sums it up well, and No I won't buy a line from someone who's income comes from selling people bullshit products to " swell your buds" and "flush your plant!" Read the part about soil in the post.
My understanding of plant biology is rudementary at best. However, I've been putting the effort in to learning more, and root structure and function is what I find most fascinating. Look up atctive transport in root structures, its an eye opener.

And your right, your not hurting anything by doing the same thing you've always done. I only want to provide information. what you do with it is up to you. I just hope it makes people at least take the time to go look things up for themselves. you did the right thing, I just won't trust the source unless, as YarraSparra says, show me the research, and or peer reviews. Until then, basic plant science will be a guide I can trust.


YarraSparra:

"I will list some points that not only challenge the absurd impracticality and illogicality of this myth, but point out how the pseudoscience behind it is fundamentally flawed (as is all pseudoscience) and can be countered by what is known about basic plant biology.


1. Robbing plants of essential nutrients at any stage of their life cycle is NOT beneficial for growth. I challenge anyone to provide a single peer reviewed paper from a reputable journal that provides evidence suggesting otherwise.

2. If this was practical, wouldn’t you expect all big agricultural hydroponic growers adopt the same practice?

3. Plants take minerals into their tissues, from their roots via the treachery elements; i.e. xylem. Once these minerals are in the plant, they are there to stay, the plant does not expel them, unless it’s through senescence-driven abscission of leaf petioles. From the treachery elements nutrients are translocated into the phloem - the plant’s ‘blood supply’ - after being integrated into various biomolecules, or are used for various metabolic functions. Where is the logic in thinking the plant ‘uses’ these up in that last week of flushing, in order to avoid smoking them? All the N P K Fe Mg Ca etc. is still there.

4. For arguments sake say we counter the last point by suggesting these minerals in their ‘raw form’ will taste ‘hasher’ or ‘nastier’ in the form of pyrolytic breakdown products (formed when weed is burned) than artifacts of larger biomolecules of which these minerals/macro nutrients are now a part of, for example phosphorylated PO43-. Even if this was the case it still doesn’t correlate with the myth, as the transports steam in the treachery elements is measured in minutes not a week. i.e. a PO43- molecule does not wait around in these vessels for a week before subsequent translocation and modification.

5. If there was any truth to this myth, then plants grown in soil would always taste worse than plants grown in hydro. Why? Because obviously soil is not an inert medium you can flush for a week. And a plant CANNOT distinguish between a PO43- molecule that comes from soil from that of a PO43- molecule that comes from hydro solution (which also debunks another myth, but we’ll leave that one).

6. Are there studies that have conducted double blind trials to investigate if flushed weed tastes any ‘sweeter’ than unflushed weed. Again, need peer reviewed papers. And doesn’t have to be weed, can be strawberries or any other type of fruit.

7. What is the proposed mechanism to support this myth, and how is it consistent with fundamental plant biology.

8. How does starving the plant of food in the last week increase thc production in the trichome? Papers?

9. Given, under certain conditions stressed plants upregulate certain defence compounds, but they will almost certainly produce less inflorescence weight per watt of light. Growth is always retarded under stress - not promoted. Nutrient starvation is a form of stress. Looking for peer reviewed papers that suggest otherwise.

Those of you set in your ways, each to their own and best of luck to you. Those who are willing to change their views in light of new evidence, or lack thereof, be ready for increased yields by feeding those hungry ladies right up until the second you chop."

YS

 

[Eyes on Fire]

see me, I read stuff like this and it kind of makes me laugh some..WHY? well think about it.everyone want to see this and that either on paper or some tells them this and that all numbers and simple biology as WE know it in this society.that's like saying to someone why cant science figure out whats up with us doc? well no because there is so much we don't understand about us as a bio electric organism.we/us and them are truly clueless..and a plant IS a living life form right? well it is thee very same principle.i see it all the time.

I respect what you guys are after ..truly i do,but its a flawed system in principle and mathematics if you will.there are levels of life and bio diversity we truly either underestimate which happens daily,OR we truly are flat clueless and use theoretic physics and mathematics to make it work, to fit where does..LOL its a flawed science imho.

but keep cracking away lol you guys might live to see it..maybe lol i personally dont think ill be alive long enough to truly understand life and whats what in this highly complex and baffling universe.

 

[tripaholic88]

@Eyes on Fire i agree with you here as well. nature is pretty complex but we SHOULD have a basic understanding of how nutrients move as @pop22 suggested

personally dont think ill be alive long enough to truly understand life and whats what in this highly complex and baffling universe.

take a 40mg dab of DMT and ask the DMT extra-dimensional entities/spirit guides and they will tell you pretty much anything you would like to know speacking of dmt i think its about time to do another extraction

 

[Eyes on Fire]

agreed!

 

[HashMaster]

yea @HashMaster untill this is or if there is ever a way to see it on paper its all up in the air... i do believe genetics of the plant has alot to do with it all along with the cure obv... im just gonna have to do it when i run 2 of the same strain and find out.. BUT i can say i AM happy with the "emergency" chop on my LSD-25 with going straight into the bag,2 days bag drying and a quick run in my food dehydrator i use for drying my mushies. i can only imagine what its gonna be like when its fully cured!:drool:

Actually there is many ways to see it on paper already, I just didn't want to go search out links and post it all because I'm lazy, because I'm typing on my phone and have the big fingers little keys thing going on, and because I did not want to sound condescending towards a superb grower such as @pop22 (yeah, that's right, I been peeking at yer porn)

But since pop22 posted he likes learning things I will touch on a couple of areas that make flushing a specific requirement for cannabis and then anyone who wants to can research and learn and find the documentation that's already out there if they want...

Forget taste though, you will find the info I'm referring to by digging into toxic waste, heavy metals, and health related issues.

1) cannabis is an accumulator plant, in fact because of it being an easy to grow weed that thrives almost anywhere it is generally considered the best accumulator plant.

This means it acts like a huge wet vac when planted in quantities. It is used around the world to clean up toxic waste dumps, radioactivity, heavy metals, etc.... they will suck up and store virtually anything.

Ok, so that's one thing you can search if you want to learn more.

2) the other thing to tie into it is from basic intro to chemistry 101.

When you apply heat to a compound then said compound can give off other compounds.

Since we all know there is zinc in our weeds let's have a Friday night quiz.... what 3 toxic compounds are given off by zinc when heat is introduced ?

If you know the answer to the quiz then it becomes obvious why you would want to flush out as much zinc as possible.

The same goes for phosphorus, it also gives off a toxic compound when heat is applied.

That same is true for most of the other basic building blocks of our favorite weed.

Our favorite little wet vac weed stores things, from heavy metals to radioactive waste to regular nutrients. It does not convert what it needs until it actually uses it. And as I mentioned before when you flush it reduces what is stored.

If what is stored can convert into toxic substances when heat is applied don't you think it best to reduce what is stored ?

When I said I could taste the difference I was not just referring to nutes.

Now having said that I am probably a bit more adapt at tasting or sensing chemicals due to my history, but if anyone researches this subject from a health standpoint I would imagine even if they can't taste anything they would still see the need to flush.

This was why the guy at AN said it was strain specific and not medium specific. And no, their flush product was never discussed. I wanted to eliminate money from the equation so we only discussed water flush.

Ok, let me get on my fire suit before I post the next line......

Yes, this even applies to organic grows (the intro to Chem / heat / compound thing and the wet vac / heavy metals thing)

So I always flush organic grows as much as possible as well

Flame away... I need a light for my hookah anyway....

 

[MeefChief]

This is a post from YarraSparra on THC Farmer that sums it up well, and No I won't buy a line from someone who's income comes from selling people bullshit products to " swell your buds" and "flush your plant!" Read the part about soil in the post.
My understanding of plant biology is rudementary at best. However, I've been putting the effort in to learning more, and root structure and function is what I find most fascinating. Look up atctive transport in root structures, its an eye opener.

And your right, your not hurting anything by doing the same thing you've always done. I only want to provide information. what you do with it is up to you. I just hope it makes people at least take the time to go look things up for themselves. you did the right thing, I just won't trust the source unless, as YarraSparra says, show me the research, and or peer reviews. Until then, basic plant science will be a guide I can trust.


YarraSparra:

"I will list some points that not only challenge the absurd impracticality and illogicality of this myth, but point out how the pseudoscience behind it is fundamentally flawed (as is all pseudoscience) and can be countered by what is known about basic plant biology.


1. Robbing plants of essential nutrients at any stage of their life cycle is NOT beneficial for growth. I challenge anyone to provide a single peer reviewed paper from a reputable journal that provides evidence suggesting otherwise.

2. If this was practical, wouldn’t you expect all big agricultural hydroponic growers adopt the same practice?

3. Plants take minerals into their tissues, from their roots via the treachery elements; i.e. xylem. Once these minerals are in the plant, they are there to stay, the plant does not expel them, unless it’s through senescence-driven abscission of leaf petioles. From the treachery elements nutrients are translocated into the phloem - the plant’s ‘blood supply’ - after being integrated into various biomolecules, or are used for various metabolic functions. Where is the logic in thinking the plant ‘uses’ these up in that last week of flushing, in order to avoid smoking them? All the N P K Fe Mg Ca etc. is still there.

4. For arguments sake say we counter the last point by suggesting these minerals in their ‘raw form’ will taste ‘hasher’ or ‘nastier’ in the form of pyrolytic breakdown products (formed when weed is burned) than artifacts of larger biomolecules of which these minerals/macro nutrients are now a part of, for example phosphorylated PO43-. Even if this was the case it still doesn’t correlate with the myth, as the transports steam in the treachery elements is measured in minutes not a week. i.e. a PO43- molecule does not wait around in these vessels for a week before subsequent translocation and modification.

5. If there was any truth to this myth, then plants grown in soil would always taste worse than plants grown in hydro. Why? Because obviously soil is not an inert medium you can flush for a week. And a plant CANNOT distinguish between a PO43- molecule that comes from soil from that of a PO43- molecule that comes from hydro solution (which also debunks another myth, but we’ll leave that one).

6. Are there studies that have conducted double blind trials to investigate if flushed weed tastes any ‘sweeter’ than unflushed weed. Again, need peer reviewed papers. And doesn’t have to be weed, can be strawberries or any other type of fruit.

7. What is the proposed mechanism to support this myth, and how is it consistent with fundamental plant biology.

8. How does starving the plant of food in the last week increase thc production in the trichome? Papers?

9. Given, under certain conditions stressed plants upregulate certain defence compounds, but they will almost certainly produce less inflorescence weight per watt of light. Growth is always retarded under stress - not promoted. Nutrient starvation is a form of stress. Looking for peer reviewed papers that suggest otherwise.

Those of you set in your ways, each to their own and best of luck to you. Those who are willing to change their views in light of new evidence, or lack thereof, be ready for increased yields by feeding those hungry ladies right up until the second you chop."

YS

Alright Pop.. You sold me, I'm going to let this crop go un-flushed.

 

[tripaholic88]

ok so i found this on zinc and leads me to a couple ?'s:
At temperatures above 100°C (212°F), however, zinc becomes somewhat malleable.
Zinc's melting point is 419.5°C (787.1°F) and its boiling point is 908°C (1,670°F) ( at what temps does the zinc give off the fumes?)
Zinc is an essential micronutrient for plants, humans, and animals. Zinc deficiency has relatively little effect on the health of a plant, but it interferes with reproduction(isnt flowerig the reproduction phase of the plant? seems like it would be bad to cut the things it needs most at a special time. but i do understand where you are coming from as a health point of view...)