Okey to use seedbanks strains to do my own strains?

[EverythingsHazy]

It's perfectly fine to make crosses, and then name them (Look at the lineage of the strains that are produced by other breeders. Almost none of them are created from pure, wild-collected, landrace strains, meaning that they started with genetics obtained from the work of another grower), but just selfing something that you bought and then renaming it is grimy. In that case you'd be better off calling them "Original Strain Name + S#", with "S" designating that it's the result of selfing, and "#" being the number of generations (i.e. "Dutch Passion Auto Mazar S3" = seeds produced by selfing DPAM for 3 generations in a row).

Where it gets a little bit less clear, is if you actually isolate and stabilize a specific phenotype from a strain that you obtained (i.e. you buy "Grape Ape" and only 1:4 is purple, and you self/inbreed one of those purple ones to produce a strain that's always purple). In that case, people are likely going to have a wider variety of opinions on your renaming of it.

In any case, whatever you intend to call your own, should be significantly different than whatever you originally obtained.

 

[tobe]

Hi friends
It's a interesting discussion. The answer to the question is yes you can use seeds you buy for new crosse's but give credits to the source you got your seeds from.
As a example:
Yesterday i talked to TomHill about a TomHill auto haze and how to name it. Tom told me it's ok for him to name the strain like i want and also sell my work. I offered him to share my work at first with him to try and see if he like it and how close I am at the photoperiod version.
I got also conversation with other breeders the most of them don't want to see F1 or f2 crosse's in commerical sell, they told me go to f3 or do a third way cross and give credits to the source than it's ok to sell /share them.

Have a nice day you all
cu tobe

 

[Olderfart]

Hi friends
It's a interesting discussion. The answer to the question is yes you can use seeds you buy for new crosse's but give credits to the source you got your seeds from.
As a example:
Yesterday i talked to TomHill about a TomHill auto haze and how to name it. Tom told me it's ok for him to name the strain like i want and also sell my work. I offered him to share my work at first with him to try and see if he like it and how close I am at the photoperiod version.
I got also conversation with other breeders the most of them don't want to see F1 or f2 crosse's in commerical sell, they told me go to f3 or do a third way cross and give credits to the source than it's ok to sell /share them.

Have a nice day you all
cu tobe

One of the things that I appreciate about Mephisto is that they tell you whose genetics they start a project with, and it at least seems as though all their projects are cleared by the original breeders of the contributing strains. Not many, if any, breeders I have looked at either confirm where the genetics came from, or the nature of collaboration behind using them.

 

[DIRT]

Here's my 2 cents for what it's worth...

A breeder should first gain experience breeding/chucking for a few years and read, read, read.
Knowledge is power, but experience is king.
If you haven't been breeding for awhile and have no experience, then you probably shouldn't be selling seeds, period.
Trading and sharing is still cool..selling not so much.

Now as for taking two different cultivars from two different breeders making an F1 and giving it a cool name....thats acceptable, but selling those seeds is just lazy and unethical,imo.

Now on the flip side if you took those same F1's to say F5 then you've put in the work and technically made it your own based on what selections you've made over successive generations.
If you took your now F5 and made F1's with another breeders stock,
it becomes acceptable and would not be considered a hack or opportunistic, imo. Because you put in the work and used something you put your heart into.

Another example would be If you made a new unique Auto by Inbreeding photo x auto or vice versa until stable for the auto trait.
Again, in this circumstance you would be able to make F1's crossing your newly bred auto with another breeders work and it be ethical, for the same reasons stated above.

You should never cross two lines from the same breeder unless for personal use/friends etc.
Never for commercial sale....it's an insult.

I see a lot of mentions about stability here at AFN, more so than any other forum I've been on in the last 15 years, even in this very thread.......
The question I always ask myself when I see this is stability for what???
The day neutral trait? Structure? Trichome production? Potency? Color? Terpenes? Intersex traits, etc...This one confuses me and I think the word is used either Incorrectly, too loosely or without clarity.

There also appears to be some sort of misunderstanding about the benefits of F1 Auto hybrids in the autoflower community.
F1's are phenomenal for vigor and uniformity in comparison to a poorly made F3, F4 and beyond.
F1 is where it all starts and F2 is where the treasure hunt begins.

Credit should always be given to the breeders who's lines you've worked and transparency in regards to lineage is not only important but should be demanded by the community as a whole...everytime I see secret breeding auto or some obscure description I think someone took a shortcut, isn't being honest and has probably took advantage of someone else's work without giving credit where it's due.

Wether you ask permission depends somewhat, imo.
If your using a smaller scale breeders work than you should definitely ask and give them the credit they deserve.
If your using some million dollar operations beans like greenhouse seed co...
Fuck'em.

That's just my opinion.

 

[tobe]

@Olderfart you are right Mephisto do a great job and the give credits to the source of genetic.

@DIRT
Stability is important for medical users , if you found the right strain for your health you don't want a big range of variation.

 

[Smoking Frog]

Maybe off topic a bit but...Just bought some seeds,Auto Orange Candy, from a''new'' local to me guy that started advertize on Facebook.
They were way cheaper then any other breeders.
7 weeks in,they're 10'' and no flowering signs yet.
Nothing like the real deal!

 

[TreyDogg]

I buy lots of seeds off Strainly and have been plenty pleased on selections and price. I find a lot of good deals and crosses.

 

[WildBill]

I don't think I've bought seeds from a breeder that didn't state lineage.
I don't think I would.
I don't worry about what I've been gifted here to test and or G&S with the breeders here being vetted. While some really didn't go into the lineage, they were vetted.
Lineage becomes important to me when I BUY seeds. A good part of 'need to know' is just plain 'canna geekness'. But I think a credible stated lineage lends credence to the breeder. Off the top of my head and the two breeders that stand out in my head that give good lineage info, are Mephisto and Twenty20. That's mainly based on what info is easily available. Other breeders here on AFN freely give info when asked in tests and G&S and in open forum.

F-1s are great, from established strains. As much inbreeding and pollen chucking since the 70s or so, are there really many true F-1 crosses being sold? I'm fairly sure the "F1 vigor" is not nearly as evident in current cannabis breeding as would as a cattle F1 crosses. I've seen some amazing cattle F1s! I had a reat example o a F1 SinBra, Simmental X Brahma. Her Mom N Pop were large examples of each breed and she was bigger than either. She was a bit longer than the norm too. When I bred her for the first time, I AI'd her with a stretch Angus, noted for extra long torso. I chose Angus for them known to throw smaller calves, easier on first calving. Her first was a little bull and I never cut him. He was black like his dad, but had his mom's height with dad's BULK. He was just plain massive! I took him to the slaughterhouse the next day when the fuger tried to pin me in the feeding stall in my lean to. The butcher called me to comment on his structure. He dressed out amazingly well. I duplicated the results many times over the years and she well fed my family for those years. When I stopped raising cattle, I sold her to my long term friend and neighbor that I knew he would take care of her to her end.

My point to the cattle breeding, is that with known lineage, you can have consistent results.

To the OP: Chuck Away! Give to friends and family and grow your meds or rec canna. Don't expect credibility without work or revealing lineage. You already knew that, but great topic.