TLO: For dummies, from a dummy.

[X]

If you haven't been in the military in the last 10 or so years, or been through a serious natural disaster (hurricane/tornado/etc.), you probably don't know what an MRE is... It's the meals the govt. feeds our troops in isolated areas and hands out to civilians during a natural emergency, when there's no power/fuel is in short supply/etc... Meals Ready to Eat.

Back around the turn of the 20th century, when I was a kid , I loved going to Maw Maw's... She had a garden, chickens, and a smokehouse... old school. When we'd get to Maw Maw's, the table would already be set with more different kinds of food and baked stuff than could ever be eaten by us all (2parents/6 kids). I loved some of the stuff and I didn't like some of the stuff (brussel sprouts - YUK! ) But, the point is, there was such a wide choice, in abundance, it didn't matter if you didn't like something that was on the table, you were getting full anyway... full of home-cooked, freshly harvested, and baked from scratch, nutrition... and there were always leftovers.

On the other hand, the MRE has a very well balance meal in it. Most of it doesn't taste very good but it will keep you alive and relatively healthy... if you eat the whole meal, everytime. But, the reality of eating MRE's is this: There is something in almost every MRE that the person who is eating it, will only eat it if it is a matter of survival... it does not appeal to them... maybe to the point of disgust... so it is frequently discarded, leaving the person with the MRE short of nutrition in some area. When there is a group, there is almost always trading of contents, seldom based on nutritional value. In some instances, food that is discarded from an MRE, would be enjoyed by the same person, if it were fresh and properly prepared.

In my mind, using supersoils/TLO is like eating at Maw Maw's. Everything is there on the table, perfectly prepared. It doesn't matter what the plant wants/needs or doesn't want/need, it is there for the plant to take or leave... and there are always leftovers.

Likewise, from my perspective, starting with a fresh mix every time and adding nutes as you go, is similar to feeding a plant MRE style. You start with a good mix and you have a fert regimen that is proven to work. (All the nutrition a plant needs in a nice package) You've done this before. You're good at it. You know how to fix deficiencies when they show. But, suddenly... "CRAP! Why are my friggin' leaves yellowing on the tips???" you're thinking... you know, this looks like a K problem but, if it get worse... it might be P... heck! Are those little spots??? Is it a zinc thing?? Geez... it's probably just lockout. My soil pH probably got out of whack... maybe I'll just flush them good and check the run-off while I'm at it... Oh crap!! my runoff is at 5!! How did that happen??? AND on, and on, and on...

I have just described a scenario (MRE scenario) similar to situations I have personally experienced and seen played out over and over in the grow infirmary. For me, since there is a clear alternative, I don't posses enough mental energy to fool with it.

That is my view on the difference between what the two methods offer, which is probably enough for now. Next, we'll start putting the food on the table...

 

[StickMan]

In my mind, using supersoils/TLO is like eating at Maw Maw's. Everything is there on the table, perfectly prepared. It doesn't matter what the plant wants/needs or doesn't want/need, it is there for the plant to take or leave... and there are always leftovers.

Likewise, from my perspective, starting with a fresh mix every time and adding nutes as you go, is similar to feeding a plant MRE style. You start with a good mix and you have a fert regimen that is proven to work. (All the nutrition a plant needs in a nice package) You've done this before. You're good at it. You know how to fix deficiencies when they show. But, suddenly... "CRAP! Why are my friggin' leaves yellowing on the tips???" you're thinking... you know, this looks like a K problem but, if it get worse... it might be P... heck! Are those little spots??? Is it a zinc thing?? Geez... it's probably just lockout. My soil pH probably got out of whack... maybe I'll just flush them good and check the run-off while I'm at it... Oh crap!! my runoff is at 5!! How did that happen??? AND on, and on, and on...

I have just described a scenario (MRE scenario) similar to situations I have personally experienced and seen played out over and over in the grow infirmary. For me, since there is a clear alternative, I don't posses enough mental energy to fool with it.

Most excellent and easy to understand analogy bro. :clap:

 

[*headpiECE*]

Good analogy x...:thumbs:

MoHo liked to describe organics done right as taking your plants to a buffet...they'll eat what they want and leave the rest...:booya:

 

[gradolabs]

Now I'm just hungry. And not for Mr. E's! Is there room at the buffet?

 

[X]

Based on my life experiences, I have learned that smart people do dumb stuff and, sometimes, dummies do smart stuff... If you figure that out, let me know... I don't even try.

One thing a dummy can do right, is recognize great results, and try to replicate those results by doing the same things... rather than trying to figure out some new, enlightened, different way...

I don't like to waste energy (physical or mental) and have a limited income, so making a mix that would produce stellar results (based on what I saw in DIRT's and L3K's results), that could be used over and over with very minor amending necessary, and relieve me of trying to figure out which nute regimen to use, or how much at a time, or even when to start them, seemed like the thing for me.

So, I started out simple. I started out with LEVER 3K's recipe which include the following ingredients:

Compost - (I used flushed, used FFOF)
Peat moss (or promix bx works fine) - (I used flushed, used FFOF)
Mexican bat guano - (grow shop or web)
Indoesian bat guano - (grow shop or web)
Jamacian bat quano (optional) - (grow shop or web)
Peruvian seabird quano - - (grow shop or web)
Kelp meal - (grow shop or web)
epsom salts - (drug store)
Earthworm castings - (almost any garden center)
Greensand (optional) - (sometimes sold in Garden Centers... always in grow shops, or the web)
Rock posphate (optional) - (grow shop or web)
Crushed oyster shells - (feed store - it's sold to mix with chicken feed)
dolomite lime (optional) - (almost any Garden Center... sold as garden lime to make hydrangeas purple)

I had a bunch of used FFOF that I flushed a couple times to use for compost and in place of the peat moss/Pro-Mix. The rest of the stuff runs about $100. Unfortunately, there is this initial investment, but I would have spent $40 for a couple bags of FFOF and at least another $10 minimum on misc stuff... per grow. Over a year later, I've gone through 3+ grows, and I'm still using the original amendments when I re-compost the mix.

I let the mix cook for about 45 days while I had another grow going and started using it on the next grow. Trust me, I was nervous. I was anxiously watching for pH issues, nute burn, all the stuff I had run into, from time to time, on my previous grows... but, nothing bad happened. Not only that, the herb was prettier and the buds were noticeably heavier. When harvest time arrived, I tasted tastes I hadn't been tasting, and this herb was not making me cough... hmmm... I thought that was one of the signs of potent herb... not necessarily, I found out.

I listed sources I used to get the listed amendments... On the web: kelp4less.com is an excellent source for just about any organic amendment you could desire, at very reasonable price points.

That's enough for now. We know the ingredients... next, we'll head to the kitchen.

 

[stashmouth2]

Thanks for the thread. Everyone should sub or bookmark for reference.
If you're going to spend the effort and cash to give the girls what they need, when they need it, why not have it all there waiting?

 

[Mr Piggy]

Awesome! From one lazy simpleton to the next, TLO is the way to go.

 

[X]

Thanks guys... Here's the last installment. I'll be happy to try and answer any questions you guys have from here...

To I say I was nervous through the first supersoil grow is quite an understatement. I knew it would work but I expected at least some minor issues... but there were none, zilch!

When I first started with supersoil, I was still wrestling with the difference in the mindsets... feeding plants vs feeding microbes. So, I start digging some in an attempt to get my head around it. I researched some of the information on the web and consulted with L3K and DIRT, along the way. I had come to know L3K a little, so I bugged him more.

While I was looking around on the web, I saw supersoil growers using lots of different amendments and, from time to time, there is some sort of scientific breakthrough that leads to some new type of organic amendment or catalyst (i.e. Biozome).

In my mind, I'm thinking that what makes these guys wizards, is the fact that they can throw everything except the kitchen sink in their mixes, yet, nothing gets burned. Heck, I had burned plants with my FF trio by just starting a new strain at the same strength I had started a previous one at.

Finally, I started to get it. It seemed to all boil down to the cooking... If the mix cooks long enough, I have been able to throw just about anything I want in there and all it does is make the mix richer and healthier, with the microbes as the chef's.

Here is a list of amendments I now have added to my original mix:

Azamax
Garden Gypsum
Alfalfa
Biozome
Cotton Seed Meal
Fulvic/Humic Acid
GH Subculture M
GH subculture B
GH Florolicious Plus

If you'd like to know what they each do, all I can tell you is "Google it". I added them because I saw them mentioned somewhere, checked into them to see if they could be beneficial to my microbes or add beneficial fungi or additional microbes, and added it if it did. This was not expensive to do. I ordered this stuff a little at a time. None of it is necessary... but it is all beneficial.

The point is, I had now started looking for microbe food. As much variety as possible... grains, minerals, catalysts, whatever... The larger variety they have to eat, the healthier and stronger they will be. Most importantly, the more variety of healthy nutrition the microbes get, the broader the spectrum of exudes (microbe poop) there are for the plant. You can put in too much of a certain amendment, but you almost have to ignore all reason to do that. When I first introduce a new amendment to my mix, I try to follow the recommendations that are provided by the supplier. After that, when I'm re-amending, to re-compost the mix, I just throw in about a about a cup (handful) of each amendment per 10 gallons of mix... with the exception of dolomite, which I will put in a few cups of.

So this is how I look at it now (without regard to all the underlying science), just like at Maw Maw's, there is an overabundance of food, cooked expertly by nature's little chef's (microbes), and when we put a plant in it, it's like sending it on an all-expenses paid vacation, with waiters and waitresses bringing it anything it desires, while it sits around tanning.

They look real good when they come home.

 

[*headpiECE*]

A simple but profound way to put it...bravo x...:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

I can post up a VERY simple basic organic mix (TLO friendly) if there's interest...yours is very simple and cheap as well, but some newer folks might not have used soil to recycle...top notch thread...:thumbs:

 

[X]

I can post up a VERY simple basic organic mix (TLO friendly) if there's interest

We welcome and encourage all proven recipes... I would appreciate your placing it in the thread entitled TLO/supersoil recipes, so that it will be more easily accessible when someone is looking for recipe's.

I would like to add... If you're really on a budget, or want to proceed very cautiously when trying to get started, the basic essentials are a grow medium (compost - new/used mix without chem ferts), microbes (manure), minerals (kelp, greensand, dolomite). If you go with 5 gal medium (about a bag), 5 gal manure (about a bag - cow, chicken), one cup each of kelp + greensand, and 3 cups of dolomite... let the chef's go to work in the kitchen for 40-50 days, you'll be surprised how well your plants do with water only.

It is easy and inexpensive to enhance your mix from then on.