Grow Mediums Barney’s Farm LSD-25 (photo) in 8.5L Autopots w/coco, TF nutrients, and AutoCobs

[Olde School Player]

Sorry man, I mis-read the post above where you raised ppm by 250; thought you were AT 250 until I read the previous page - "... gallon of full strength nutes (1400 ppm) and mixed it into the reservoir with some fresh water bringing it down to 1000ppm with a pH of 6.02 This is up from the 750ppm feeding last fillup." But unless Waira has other ideas, I'd still lean in the direction of zinc.
Where is your pure water ppm after only cal-mag supplementation? I want to see at least 250ppm with my cal-mag and silicon supplements, which ZI add and mix before adding anything else. I'd also try lowering your pH to the 5.6 - 5.8 range for a bit. You want to see some healthy fluctuation - I normally thing 5.8 - 6.1 but if you've been running 6 and above, a drop a bit lower wouldn't hurt & will probably help.
Oh - oh - oh - if you are not using Silicon, give it a try, does a great job at reducing stress induced issues with your plants.

 

[HemiSync]

BUT MORE LIKELY from your low 250ppm nute regimen

Not sure where you are seeing this. They are all between 750 and 1000 ppm of nutrients right now.

 

[HemiSync]

Sorry man, I mis-read the post above where you raised ppm by 250; thought you were AT 250 until I read the previous page - "... gallon of full strength nutes (1400 ppm) and mixed it into the reservoir with some fresh water bringing it down to 1000ppm with a pH of 6.02 This is up from the 750ppm feeding last fillup." But unless Waira has other ideas, I'd still lean in the direction of zinc.
Where is your pure water ppm after only cal-mag supplementation? I want to see at least 250ppm with my cal-mag and silicon supplements, which ZI add and mix before adding anything else. I'd also try lowering your pH to the 5.6 - 5.8 range for a bit. You want to see some healthy fluctuation - I normally thing 5.8 - 6.1 but if you've been running 6 and above, a drop a bit lower wouldn't hurt & will probably help.
Oh - oh - oh - if you are not using Silicon, give it a try, does a great job at reducing stress induced issues with your plants.

In addition I’m using dechlorinated tap water not pure RO water

 

[Waira]

OSP, how's it going brudda? .... Hemi' -- what's good? :smoking:

Okay, I think there's a cause and effect thing behind this,.. something I'm learning more about myself, and how it relates to defc. issues... Vapor Pressure Deficit.. I have some info here - with a link to a video there as well,... it's a brain-full, but it ties so many links together with nutrition, performance,.. beyond just what feeds are going in and pH, water, etc.,...
I think your VPD is way off with those T and RH% numbers,.. it's forcing a shitload of transpiration to happen, unhealthy levels, then it starts to shut down... This can jam up nute uptake and transport,... I think the plant is having to clamp down on the stomata to reduce water loss, which in turn restricts the flow of nutes as well,...they are chained to each other! So this is at least in part what's happening,.. enough nutes may be there, but restricted movement of them can cause such defc.s' to show up despite that,...
Symptoms look mixed,... sure does look like Mg defc. mainly to me too, but so much all over the plant, up high especially (Mg is mobile), this is weird,... could be the plant is pulling from higher leaves to save energy of translocating it from lowers,.... but early S defc. can start looking like this too, but usually it hits tops first and worst, as it's an immobile nute like Zn and most of the other micronutes (Mo is the only mobile one actually).. epsoms will cover both Mg and S if this is the case, but micro's are another matter,.. you need a dedicated micronute supp', like Earth juice Microblast or something like that,.. Im like EJ because of it's broad spectrum coverage and it's largely sulfate based, so S gets pumped in as well! Foliar is the fastest way in, but using a wetting agent is key, so is spraying tops AND bottoms of leaves (more stomata there),...plus in-pot application (in Autopots, I'd still hand water it in for faster uptake),.... it'll still take a few days to really start working, but slowing of progression should be seen within a day or so,... If you have it or can get it, Optic Foliar Transport is liquid ass-kick used with any micro- supp', no need for wetting agent either, so just a heads up there (check the Showcase area, early one, I did a review of this there),...
Meantime, getting that T down and the RH up is bottom line fix for sure, or all you'll do is chase your tail on this fixing symptoms shit and not the fixing potential the root cause,... you'll see some charts at that link, it's a bit confusing until you read the article and see the vid, then you'll get the gist of how once you're out of that proper VPD zone, things can start to go sideways,... reading the more complex charts is bit of a PITA, and not knowing the actual leaf surface temp is a big factor (there 1 and 2 degree C tables there, I'd use the 2C as a guideline), but the bigger picture is there, not so much the minutia,....

 

[Olde School Player]

Waira said it so much more eloquently than I did, heat induced stress that is creating deficiency symptoms that are not really "there". And since he said it so well, I would second my original opinion of adding silicon unless your regimen already has that as a micronute. It should have 8 - 10% slicon dioxide (SiO2) derived from potassium silicate

And Check on the tap water, as long as it is not softened. RO offers more control if you're a control freak (like me) but tap works most times.

 

[Unique]

OSP, how's it going brudda? .... Hemi' -- what's good? :smoking:

Okay, I think there's a cause and effect thing behind this,.. something I'm learning more about myself, and how it relates to defc. issues... Vapor Pressure Deficit.. I have some info here - with a link to a video there as well,... it's a brain-full, but it ties so many links together with nutrition, performance,.. beyond just what feeds are going in and pH, water, etc.,...
I think your VPD is way off with those T and RH% numbers,.. it's forcing a shitload of transpiration to happen, unhealthy levels... this can jam up nute uptake and transport,... I think the plant is having to clamp down on the stomata to reduce water loss, which in turn restricts the flow of nutes as well,...they are chained to each other! So this is at least in part what's happening,.. enough nutes may be there, but restricted movement of them can cause such defc.s' to show up despite that,...
Symptoms look mixed,... sure does look like Mg defc. mainly to me too, but so much all over the plant, up high especially (Mg is mobile), this is weird,... could be the plant is pulling from higher leaves to save energy of translocating it from lowers,.... but early S defc. can start looking like this too, but usually it hits tops first and worst, as it's an immobile nute like Zn and most of the other micronutes (Mo is the only mobile one actually).. epsoms will cover both Mg and S if this is the case, but micro's are another matter,.. you need a dedicated micronute supp', like Earth juice Microblast or something like that,.. Im like EJ because of it's broad spectrum coverage and it's largely sulfate based, so S gets pumped in as well! Foliar is the fastest way in, but using a wetting agent is key, so is spraying tops AND bottoms of leaves (more stomata there),...plus in-pot application (in Autopots, I'd still hand water it in for faster uptake),.... it'll still take a few days to really start working, but slowing of progression should be seen within a day or so,... If you have it or can get it, Optic Foliar Transport is liquid ass-kick used with any micro- supp', no need for wetting agent either, so just a heads up there (check the Showcase area, early one, I did a review of this there),...
Meantime, getting that T down and the RH up is bottom line fix for sure, or all you'll do is chase your tail on this fixing symptoms shit and not the fixing potential the root cause,... you'll see some charts at that link, it's a bit confusing until you read the article and see the vid, then you'll get the gist of how once you're out of that proper VPD zone, things can start to go sideways,... reading the more complex charts is bit of a PITA, and not knowing the actual leaf surface temp is a big factor (there 1 and 2 degree C tables there, I'd use the 2C and guideline), but it bigger picture is there, not so much the minutia,....

I think VPD is vital, But growers learning to use must understand, that VPD is used only up until pre-flower...then after that you know longer are following the chart... I know I point that out to a lot of people.. I guess they "assume" it's used right through till harvest, but humidity would be far to high using the VPD chart in late flower..Also VPD is much easier to control in a sealed tent, but that would mean adding co2...I'm easily able to control VPD in a sealed tent Vs when I run Non-sealed... It's all about the Environment!

 

[Roasty McToasty]

Really nice posts @Waira , @Olde School Player , we all appreciate you taking the time.

 

[Waira]

I think VPD is vital, But growers learning to use must understand, that VPD is used only up until pre-flower...then after that you know longer are following the chart... I know I point that out to a lot of people.. I guess they "assume" it's used right through till harvest, but humidity would be far to high using the VPD chart in late flower..Also VPD is much easier to control in a sealed tent, but that would mean adding co2...I'm easily able to control VPD in a sealed tent Vs when I run Non-sealed... It's all about the Environment!

... ... yes and no IMO, that's why I echoed "guideline" like some of the authors did- ,... Air movement, and a host of other things that can fudge things some,.. but I don't think that 2C chart is at all wrong for general T & RH% during bloom, during light hours (!- not at night, though transpiration is much slowed then); that yellow zone looks OK to me, barring something like a landrace Hashplant or something that notorious for weak mold resistance,..

 

[Waira]

...cheers @Roasty McToasty , I hope it was more help than confusion! VPD is difficult to crystallize in short,....

 

[HemiSync]

OSP, how's it going brudda? .... Hemi' -- what's good? :smoking:

Okay, I think there's a cause and effect thing behind this,.. something I'm learning more about myself, and how it relates to defc. issues... Vapor Pressure Deficit.. I have some info here - with a link to a video there as well,... it's a brain-full, but it ties so many links together with nutrition, performance,.. beyond just what feeds are going in and pH, water, etc.,...
I think your VPD is way off with those T and RH% numbers,.. it's forcing a shitload of transpiration to happen, unhealthy levels, then it starts to shut down... This can jam up nute uptake and transport,... I think the plant is having to clamp down on the stomata to reduce water loss, which in turn restricts the flow of nutes as well,...they are chained to each other! So this is at least in part what's happening,.. enough nutes may be there, but restricted movement of them can cause such defc.s' to show up despite that,...
Symptoms look mixed,... sure does look like Mg defc. mainly to me too, but so much all over the plant, up high especially (Mg is mobile), this is weird,... could be the plant is pulling from higher leaves to save energy of translocating it from lowers,.... but early S defc. can start looking like this too, but usually it hits tops first and worst, as it's an immobile nute like Zn and most of the other micronutes (Mo is the only mobile one actually).. epsoms will cover both Mg and S if this is the case, but micro's are another matter,.. you need a dedicated micronute supp', like Earth juice Microblast or something like that,.. Im like EJ because of it's broad spectrum coverage and it's largely sulfate based, so S gets pumped in as well! Foliar is the fastest way in, but using a wetting agent is key, so is spraying tops AND bottoms of leaves (more stomata there),...plus in-pot application (in Autopots, I'd still hand water it in for faster uptake),.... it'll still take a few days to really start working, but slowing of progression should be seen within a day or so,... If you have it or can get it, Optic Foliar Transport is liquid ass-kick used with any micro- supp', no need for wetting agent either, so just a heads up there (check the Showcase area, early one, I did a review of this there),...
Meantime, getting that T down and the RH up is bottom line fix for sure, or all you'll do is chase your tail on this fixing symptoms shit and not the fixing potential the root cause,... you'll see some charts at that link, it's a bit confusing until you read the article and see the vid, then you'll get the gist of how once you're out of that proper VPD zone, things can start to go sideways,... reading the more complex charts is bit of a PITA, and not knowing the actual leaf surface temp is a big factor (there 1 and 2 degree C tables there, I'd use the 2C as a guideline), but the bigger picture is there, not so much the minutia,....

Waira said it so much more eloquently than I did, heat induced stress that is creating deficiency symptoms that are not really "there". And since he said it so well, I would second my original opinion of adding silicon unless your regimen already has that as a micronute. It should have 8 - 10% slicon dioxide (SiO2) derived from potassium silicate

And Check on the tap water, as long as it is not softened. RO offers more control if you're a control freak (like me) but tap works most times.

Thanks so much for stopping by and imparting this knowledge on me. Wow! What a read and explains so many of the things I’m seeing. But somebody slow that guy down in the video. LOL I know it’s his style and I love it, but that’s a lot to absorb in six minutes. Have read over it all stoned and sober and still wrapping my head around it.

Although, the biggest thing I’m understanding is I accidentally ventured into territory far beyond my knowledge level when trying to maximize my natural co2 enrichment. So backing off the temperature range I had setup and hopefully improving the VPD and things will return to normal.

again for taking the time to enrich my grow with a discussion of VPD. Maybe once I fully understand this stuff, I can experiment with my environment again. In the meantime I should have stuck to dialing in the new nutrients and lights before messing with the rest. Hopefully I can get this back on track and proceed onto harvest.

(I always tell myself to not mess “experiment” with more than one thing at a time and my first grow back and I’m messing with multiple things, typical noobie mistake)