Coco Nutrients Questions

[Stilg7]

Hey everyone, I've been growing on and off for about 4 years now and I'm wanting to take my grows to the next level, I'm sick of growing mids lol. I only grow auto flowers (but now that I have two tents I'm considering switching to photos) and a little over a year ago I came across mephisto genetics. Now that I have grown a few of their strains I want to get the most out of the rest of the Meph seeds I have before I possibly make the switch to photos. I've got most of my information from cocoforcannabis and the consistency of my grows has come a long way. Admittedly my first year or so I didn't follow guidelines as close as I should've. I was too eager and wanted to get to the end product as soon as possible. I quickly learned though, that I could grow a plant easy enough but if I wanted top shelf buds I needed to take growing a little bit more serious. One of my big problems in the beginning was I would feed my plants full strength from very early on. I've learned that starting low and increasing slowly works best. I've also learned that checking the pH of my mixes each watering was very important and the initial check when I made the mix in a 5 gallon bucket wouldn't stay the same, the pH would rise. Then I had to take a look at how frequently I would water my plants and again with coco, I learned that you can water more frequently than I ever thought was possible. I hand water so, I still don't think I water as much as I should, but by just paying a little more attention to my nute strength, my pH before every feeding and my watering frequency, I was able to see marked improvements.

Now I know a lot comes into play when determining the quality of your buds but I feel I have most of those checked off, with the exception of my overall grow environment. I won't touch on that now because I feel that requires the most attention to detail as far as light intensity, temp, RH, leaf temp, VPD charts, air flow etc. Now, on cocoforcannabis' site they use GH nutrients. After my first couple of grows I thought I didn't have enough nutrients. I tend to try to be a bit of a perfectionist and the hobby got the best of me in the beginning... so I slowly pieced together GH's 10 part flora series. I kind of regret doing this but I brought her to the party so we might as well dance. Anyways, according to CFC's feeding chart I have all of the nutrients that are needed except Diamond Nectar. I'm pretty sure that Floralicious Plus is similar but they have different NPK's. A fellow grower I met on another website made a conversion spreadsheet for all of GH's nutes. So I had a formula figured out that would get me the same ratios and ppms as GH's cocotek line. The only problem was the N ppm levels were always way lower than what GH said they should be on their feed chart even though the ratios and ppms were identical. That led me to believe maybe that spreadsheet wasn't entirely accurate. As of late I stumbled upon this information and calculator (https://www.angelfire.com/cantina/fourtwenty/articles/profiles.htm). Although this calculator shows smaller N values too, they are much closer to GH's, usually within 5 ppm. If anyone is familiar with this calculator or one like it, am I right to think I can make a mix with any of the nutrients I have (besides Ripen because I guess that technically kills your plant) as long as each nutrient's ppms are the same as CFC's with the same calculator? Because if the ppms of each nute were the same or relatively close then the NPK ratio would be the same, correct?

TLDR: I guess to simplify, does anyone have a GH nute feeding schedule that uses the whole 10 part flora series in coco coir/perlite and gets consistent top shelf results? Or does anyone have a way for me to accurately convert the GH nutes I have to the GH nutes used on CFC's website?
Thanks for reading, any and all help/info would be greatly appreciated.

 

[JP1]

10 parts? Holy shit! Anyway, I think you're trying to be maybe a little too precise here. A couple ppm is very slight. Generally what you do with multiple bottle nutrients is mix them just like the directions say. Then add plain water to dilute to your desired total ppm. This keeps all the nutrient ratios where the manufacturer intended for them to be. Then adjust your pH. Premixed nutes are usually stabile for weeks but the pH can change by the hour

 

[Stilg7]

10 parts? Holy shit! Anyway, I think you're trying to be maybe a little too precise here. A couple ppm is very slight. Generally what you do with multiple bottle nutrients is mix them just like the directions say. Then add plain water to dilute to your desired total ppm. This keeps all the nutrient ratios where the manufacturer intended for them to be. Then adjust your pH. Premixed nutes are usually stabile for weeks but the pH can change by the hour

Thanks for the response. I know, the whole 10 part thing was a massive oversight lmao. However, I would read up a lot on that topic and there were mixed opinions on "keeping it simple" and "the company designed the 10 part line for a reason". Now I think I see "the reason" being more for $$$ than anything. With following the manufacturer's directions, the only problem is that when growing in coco the medium has different needs compared to what GH's feedchart recommends for the Flora series. Not to say the Flora series doesn't work for coco because that isn't true. I just think if I were to use GH's suggestions then the mixes wouldn't have the correct NPK along with the cal/mag needed for coco. I could be wrong about that but that's why at first I tried to convert the Flora series to their Coco-tek series. Doing this, I could still use the nutes I have but it would be a formula recommended by GH for coco. I like to think that the Coco-tek's grow and bloom parts A & B would just be their Flora trio and CaliMagic nutes combined in a way to make each part specifically for coco. Then the additives are the same between the two lines. With all that said, I would switch my nute lineup all together but I have a couple hundred bucks invested in them so I want to use em up before I make any changes.

I'm starting to think that my best bet is going to be to scour the internet and try to find a reliable source that allows me to either convert the nutrients or at the very least, give me a pretty accurate idea of what the ppms are of each nutrient per mL in x gal reservoir. This way I can find a GH Flora series feedchart/schedule growers use that has good results and mix my nutes anyway I want as long as the ratios and ppms are the same. I could also be wrong about this and I'm not so sure that just because the ratios and ppms would be equivalent that doesn't mean using, let's say a bloom booster (GH liquid Koolbloom or Ripen) to reach certain ppms for P or K could affect my plant negatively because I use it too early in the grow. But that is what I'm leaning toward because I feel my question may be a little too specific. You are right though I'm probably making a mountain out of a mole hill.

Anyways, if anyone knows of a spreadsheet that can convert GH nutes or an accurate GH nute ppm per mL calculator, I think those would be the ticket. But again any and all help is appreciated.

Edit: Side note, after rereading this would I be right to say as long as the ppms are equivalent then the NPK would be as well? If so don't mind my redundancy =)

 

[BII]

I'm not familiar with those GH nutes, but with ≥10 different components being used it's probably best to closely stick with the recommended regimens, and from there consider doing some adaptations for autos, such as start at 1/2 recommended dose and increase from there if more seems to be needed; add cal-mag as needed or at low doses for prevention; etc.

You might consider simply moving to new nutes, such as 2-part MegaCrop which is rather cheap/cost effective, very adaptable to growing needs, contains essentially everything needed and works well, and has a good reputation and support, including auto-proven regimens published here on AFN. Or consider using Advanced Nutrients pH Perfect base nutes (with RO or other no/low salts water), skip pH adjustment, and selectively use the supplements you have to mimic the company's advanced growers' recommended regimens.

 

[Olderfart]

Or, Jack's 321. GH is unnecessarily complicated and expensive. IMO.

 

[Lil Dab]

Although this calculator shows smaller N values too, they are much closer to GH's, usually within 5 ppm. If anyone is familiar with this calculator or one like it, am I right to think I can make a mix with any of the nutrients I have (besides Ripen because I guess that technically kills your plant) as long as each nutrient's ppms are the same as CFC's with the same calculator? Because if the ppms of each nute were the same or relatively close then the NPK ratio would be the same, correct?

How many ppm's of N are talking about I run 200-250ppm during veg then decrease down to 120ppm for late flower and some plants could go even lower. Mind you I am talking about 500 scale. I was taught to say to mid to low end of these numbers

 

[Stilg7]

@BII @Olderfart
Thanks for the replies. As far as following the manufacture's instructions, I'm not apposed to it I just don't think the Flora line covers coco's needs to a T. And if I'm supplementing cal/mag, that has nitrogen in it. I could be giving too much nitrogen and cause tox. Although I've been growing off and on for four years I don't trust myself to toss nutes into a mix here and there because I think the plant might be lacking a nutrient. I'm not that good at identifing problems because some deficiencies/toxicities resemble others. That's why I would prefer to be able to break down how many ppm there are of each nutrient per mL in x gal resivoir. That and I like crunching numbers a lot lol.

I'll have to do a little research on AN. However, I have looked a lot into MegaCrop and Jack's and read great things about both. I didn't make the switch because I saw they have additives as well so I was a little leary. I've also thought about using Canna's coco line because I heard good things. That and I've read good things about using GH nutes but with different forumlas like Lucas, KISS, ect. This is kind of another reason why I want to be able to figure out the ppm because then I could poissbly find a mix for me. Or, if I started photos I could closely journal what I feed a particular strain and if I get really good results I would be able to easily replicate my mixes. But I'm more leaning toward the granulated nutes because of how much praise MegaCrop and Jack's get and the simplicity of both. Thanks again for the advice.

 

[Stilg7]

@Lil Dab
I've only converted seedling and early veg but according to the calculator I provided above and going with Cocoforcannabis' feed chart (https://www.cocoforcannabis.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/2023-UPDATE-CFC-Nutes.jpg) I get 41.6 and 70.5 of nitrogen per gallon. The chart shows a range of cal/mag to be used and I assume that is because the lower amount would be for tap water and the higher would be for RO. I could be wrong about that and it could be that I should start with the low number and increase if needed. I'll have to clarify that. I would also be subsituting the Diamond Nectar with Floralicious Plus.

The information you provided looks like it will be very helpful. I'll have to watch that video to get a better understanding of the concept. I have a couple questions about the numbers in the picture. Are the ppm shown for the life of the plant or late flower? And are those target numbers suitable for any growing medium? Thanks for that nugget of knowledge!

 

[Lil Dab]

@Lil Dab
I've only converted seedling and early veg but according to the calculator I provided above and going with Cocoforcannabis' feed chart (https://www.cocoforcannabis.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/2023-UPDATE-CFC-Nutes.jpg) I get 41.6 and 70.5 of nitrogen per gallon. The chart shows a rage of cal/mag to be used and I assume that is because the lower amount would be for tap water and the higher would be for RO. I could be wrong about that and it could be that I should start with the low number and increase if needed. I'll have to clarify that. I would also be subsituting the Diamond Nectar with Floralicious Plus.

The information you provided looks like it will be very helpful. I'll have to watch that video to get a better understanding of the concept. I have a couple questions about the numbers in the picture. Are the ppm shown for the life of the plant or late flower? And are those target numbers suitable for any growing medium? Thanks for that nugget of knowledge!

Here's a link to the full video anything with Harley smith is very informative. Those are number for the whole life cycle and that keeps the nutrients in balance. They use more and less of N and K through the whole grow. I am trying to find a chart that explains it better

 

[420autoflower]

I’ve been running General Hydroponics for years now and never refer to charts or graphs but always achieve top shelf product. I do try my best to keep my EC and PH in check but with running recirculating hydro units and feritigating 5 times a day my PH does fluctuate slightly. I’ve been using General Hydroponics Flora Nova Grow and Bloom for my main N-P-K but also supplement with GH Floralicious, Rapid Start, Koolbloom and Flora Nectar. The Flora Nova line is very easy to use… only 1 bottle for vegetative growth and 1 bottle for flowering. I have run their 3 part Flora series as well but made my life easier with the Nova line and less bottles. IMHO, I don’t think you need 10 different GH products to achieve high quality material as I have grown really nice kolas and buds with just the Flora Nova Grow/Bloom.