New Grower HELP.. Day 12, Underwatering and nuteburn? are they even worth growing anymore?

[theBroGro]

Hey guys.

So these two girls, RQS Sherbert Queen auto's on their Day 12, have been through a lot thanks to my inexperience and misunderstanding of basic fucking concepts, like watering, which I've gotten a lot better at. Still not great.

EDIT #2
I am using Milwaukee CD611 Digital Conductivity Pen and as per instructions 10x or 100x what it show on the meter, so 300 would show 30, 140 would show 14 etc. Though I think units are in µS/cm? I'm a little lost on this. Or would this mean 14 = 1400, which would be 700ppm? Oh man..
EDIT #3 After rechecking my own waters EC with the meter, it shows "01". I think this is the lowest it will go. The soil manufacturer claims soil EC as 0.3 (150ppm..?)

Growing in Terra Aquatica Light mix. (peatless soil with some perlite and coco). Mars Hydro TS 1000 100% @ 20" (48cm) 24h schedule and tent is 80cm x 80 cm x 180 cm (2'7" x 2'7" x 6 ft), fan is very gently waving the girls leaves.
Temps are between 23C to 26C and humidity 50-65%.
My water is soft (Got EC meter, it's between 100-200, 100 after declorination) and pH is about 8.1.

So, for the first week, they were definitely underwatered in their 3 gallon (11l) pots. Gave them only pH'd water (between 6.0 and 6.5), but too little amounts ~1-2dl (0.1-0.2l) every day when the top felt dry. Then at day 4 gave them their first proper watering, 6 days after the entire prewetting to some runoff. (pH were around 6.3 both, with water 6.3)
I continued my bad practices, giving them 0,5l 32 hours later, 1-2dl daily after than, when the top felt dry and nothing on day 8.

Day 9. I realize my watering is bad and things are quite dry. Real fucking dry. Full finger down dry. Seedlings not looking too happy, drooping a bit and slightly turning lime green. (There are more pics under my previous posts and I can post more if needed)
I water them till runoff, 0,25ml/l of GH (Terra aquatica) micro, gro and bloom each, with voodoo juice, Piranha & carbo load 2ml/l each. Water pH 6.1
#1 Runoff was pH 6.3 and #2 pH 5.7. No EC at this point.

Next day they looked much better, no more drooping and happy. Discoloration is slightly noticable, going more light or lime green though.
Day 10, (36 hours later), they felt dry 1-2in from top, and were quite light, so I gave them the same load as day 9, water pH 6.3. Runoff #1 pH 6.3, #2 pH 6.0

Day 11, girls are starting to go more lime and I think I see some signs of the tips turning whiter.
Buying EC meter.

Day 12 morning (Today), dry again, definitely got lighter tips that feel brittle.
This is where I realize I've made a terrible mistake, because of the underwatering in this soil, I nute burnt them by adding liquid nutes. At least this is my hypothesis.
Of course it wasn't sucking any nutes pre-ammended into the soil and they got like a double dose when I watered last two times.

Day 12 evening, watered with pH 6.4 water, Voodoo juice, Piranha and Carbo load, 2ml/l, EC 100. Got about 20% runoff ,#1 EC 250 #2 EC at first runoff was 400 which seemed bit hot.
After watering her a little more, letting runoff collect and tested both again:
#1 pH 6.1, EC 200, #2 pH 6.0 EC 300.
This is my latest result.
Are my girls a lost case, stunted and dying or is this salvageable? Should I jst cut my losses and start new ones? If stunted, maybe just shove these into some tiny pot and see if they will do anything..
Grow and learn I guess.. At least the Orange Critical punch auto from Dutch Passion is looking better.. I'm also getting a 230W LED alongside with TS 1000 and a cO2 bag.

(first) Picture with the temp/humidity/water sensor is girl #2.

PS. for comparison, 3rd pic is of Critical Orange Punch auto, which looks good for Day 6, watered with pH 6.5 EC 100, runoff pH 6.3, EC 140.


EDIT. added couple details and improved readability

 

[DCLXVI]

Ah well.... where to start.... So, the soil/coco blend is a tricky thing I think. Coco likes watering to runoff and soil well, you keep it moist like a nice chocolate cake but not dripping or saturated. Also with soil a wet/dry cycle is good. Not too dry of course, which is another tricky bit, isn't it?

I suspect after a quick glance at the soil makers page, that you probably could have gotten away with the first two if not three weeks with water only. Lots of bag soils come precharged with plenty of "stuff" to get throug the seedling stage.

I think the Critial Orange Punch is salveageable. Just water only for a week or two and see if it turns around. I am surprised that they were taking 1-2L a day so early on. What is the temperature and humidity % in your grow space?

 

[theBroGro]

Ah well.... where to start.... So, the soil/coco blend is a tricky thing I think. Coco likes watering to runoff and soil well, you keep it moist like a nice chocolate cake but not dripping or saturated. Also with soil a wet/dry cycle is good. Not too dry of course, which is another tricky bit, isn't it?

I suspect after a quick glance at the soil makers page, that you probably could have gotten away with the first two if not three weeks with water only. Lots of bag soils come precharged with plenty of "stuff" to get throug the seedling stage.

I think the Critial Orange Punch is salveageable. Just water only for a week or two and see if it turns around. I am surprised that they were taking 1-2L a day so early on. What is the temperature and humidity % in your grow space?

EDIT. Yeah, watering ended up being the trickiest part for me. I was so afraid of overwatering the girls. Everyone was like "Remember not to overwater" so I think I may have gone the other extreme.

I gave them 1-2dl so 0.1 liter, not 1-2 liter. The medium sucks moisture very well, doesn't pool up or anything. I have a rain like mister I use, slowly. Hasn't felt muddy.

Temps are between 23C to 26C and humidity 50-65% as mentioned above. Once or twice gone to 22.5C and 40% humidity when opening tent and doing things. I think they could have used half a day or day more, but the nute burns freaked me the fuck out so I gave them pH water with microbes and nothing more.

The soil doesn't contain any soil per say, it's what, composted wood and bark with coco and perlite, they did state there it's very light and "It's so light you should add nutes", which I only did at day 10, since most say to start the nutrients after week 1 or 2. I realize now that I definitely saw some nute salt buildup at the top when it was very dry..

Critical is only 6 days old now by the way, so I think she will be okay. She hasn't gotten any nutes, just water and microbes.


EDIT #2 I'll probably just go get some biobizz Light mix or something tomorrow and start all over.. Any recommendations? Should I do a layer of something at the bottom?
Little sad now, I know they weren't in for the best start, but this drying and nute burning might have been the last straw..

EDIT #3 I don't think the previous pictures showed the problem properly (overexposed).
This is now 5 hours after watering with light dimmed down to 50% for the pictures. First is #1, second #2

 

[DCLXVI]

BB LM works great on it's own for the first couple of week at least. Just stay on top of the watering. I misunderstood the 1-2DL, I thought it must have been a typo as not many use metric on here.

Don't layer anything. Leave it all soil from top to bottom. The BioBIzz LightMix is a peat based medium and ideal pH is 6.3 for watering and nutrients. A little swing is good up and down but keep in that range and good luck!

 

[theBroGro]

BB LM works great on it's own for the first couple of week at least. Just stay on top of the watering. I misunderstood the 1-2DL, I thought it must have been a typo as not many use metric on here.

Don't layer anything. Leave it all soil from top to bottom. The BioBIzz LightMix is a peat based medium and ideal pH is 6.3 for watering and nutrients. A little swing is good up and down but keep in that range and good luck!

Any point on letting these girls basically go on a solo cup run(Get small fabric pots), see if I can save them or better just snip them down?

All good, I realized that after the post too, so wanted to clarify.
I might as well go for BB LM and try again with these big pots. I knew watering would end up being an issue!

 

[DCLXVI]

Ah, if you're going to pull them, why not try and salvage a solo cup run! I definitely think you can save the Crit Orange though. Give it a few more days.

 

[Mañ'O'Green]

@theBroGro Welcome to AFN .

Stop! The tap root can grow 9 inches in three days. Trying to move them to a solo cup now will most likely kill them.

Never layer soil. The physics of how water moves through soil dictates that when water meets a substrate change it must saturate the top layer before it will move to the next layer. This may lead to dry pockets in the pot. Always make your soil homogeneous.

What you need to learn about watering will come with practice. Here are the basic rules: Never let the soil dry out. Soil and or coco can become hydrophobic if allowed to dry. This means it repels water. This in turn will create dry pockets in the soil and the roots and microbes will die there. If your soil - coco have accidentally dried out use a surfactant to help re-wet it. I like yucca powder. Don't let soil remain soggy by watering too much too often. Root rot, damping off, molds, fungus gnats and other problems start in soggy soil. When you do water water the entire pot. How to learn when to water starts before you plant the seed. Fill your container with fresh soil/coco and weigh it (heft it) this is the lightest weight and consider it a dry pot. Now slowly water until the soil/coco will no longer absorb the water and run-off begins; weigh the pot (heft it) this is the maximum water, the wettest the pot can get. The difference between wettest and driest is the maximum water weight, for ease of explanation lets just say the water weighs 20 pounds. When the pot loses 10 pounds (half of the water weight) it is time to water again. There is an art to watering.

Tutorial - A word on Nutrients

The proper use of “salt” based fertilizer to grow Auto Flowering Cannabis. Salts: Natural and man made any chemical compound formed from the reaction of an acid with a base, with all or part of the hydrogen of the acid replaced by a metal or other cation. Learning how to use salt based...

www.autoflower.org

It may be too late for these poor babies. Take what you have learned and move on.

 

[theBroGro]

@theBroGro Welcome to AFN .

Stop! The tap root can grow 9 inches in three days. Trying to move them to a solo cup now will most likely kill them.

Never layer soil. The physics of how water moves through soil dictates that when water meets a substrate change it must saturate the top layer before it will move to the next layer. This may lead to dry pockets in the pot. Always make your soil homogeneous.

Tutorial - A word on Nutrients

The proper use of “salt” based fertilizer to grow Auto Flowering Cannabis. Salts: Natural and man made any chemical compound formed from the reaction of an acid with a base, with all or part of the hydrogen of the acid replaced by a metal or other cation. Learning how to use salt based...

www.autoflower.org

It may be too late for these poor babies. Take what you have learned and move on.

Hey again,
I've read your things on watering and nutrients multiple times, I think I'm getting the basics down now. My medium is weird mix. I've now done lifting, trying the soil with finger and even tried a hydrometer cause why not (wasnt expecting it to do anything).
Now some things are still little lost on me. Should I water to runoff in soil like biobizz light mix? Should I water to runoff from day 1 of seedling even if roots don't reach? I get keeping soil moist. And I now know how to do that with some runoff.
Also how my meter works compared to your ppm? The site I linked under my meter does provice a calculator, so.. By this even my Critical Orange is at 700ppm?! Should I flush or something?
Are all the plants fucked?

The only reason I was debating on either cutting them down or moving the 2 RQS girls is because they are 12 days old and I'm afraid they are done and dusted. Bad yield if everything would go right from now on. Which I'm no longer very confident about..

 

[Mañ'O'Green]

No, you do not water soil to run-off. You need to learn when that will happen and stop just short of that in a perfect world. We don't live in a perfect world so most people will have a little runoff in soil. In Coco you need to water to 15% - 20% run-off any day you do fertigate.

Understanding your EC meter starts with understanding the decimal system of numbers.

If your meter is reading in µS/cm then 100 µS/cm = 0.1 mS/cm = 50 PPM in the Hanna (500) scale. So if you just move the decimal point 3 spaces to the left in your head you will be working in mS/cm and most charts are in mS/cm.

A lot of meters offer the Hanna Scale built in. In the USA we use the Hanna scale. The rest of the world uses EC. Just set your meter to the Hanna scale if you can.

µS/cm of 1400 = 1.4 mS/cm = 700 PPM. Ok that said are your plants toast? Impossible to say for sure but at this stage just water PH 6.3 when the pot has lost half of its water weight to as little run-off as possible while still fully wetting the pot.

Give them a healthy dose of LITFA for a couple of weeks.

 

[theBroGro]

No, you do not water soil to run-off. You need to learn when that will happen and stop just short of that in a perfect world. We don't live in a perfect world so most people will have a little runoff in soil. In Coco you need to water to 15% - 20% run-off any day you do fertigate.

Understanding your EC meter starts with understanding the decimal system of numbers.

View attachment 1422812

If your meter is reading in µS/cm then 100 µS/cm = 0.1 mS/cm = 50 PPM in the Hanna (500) scale. So if you just move the decimal point 3 spaces to the left in your head you will be working in mS/cm and most charts are in mS/cm.

A lot of meters offer the Hanna Scale built in. In the USA we use the Hanna scale. The rest of the world uses EC. Just set your meter to the Hanna scale if you can.

View attachment 1422811

µS/cm of 1400 = 1.4 mS/cm = 700 PPM. Ok that said are your plants toast? Impossible to say for sure but at this stage just water PH 6.3 when the pot has lost half of its water weight to as little run-off as possible while still fully wetting the pot.

Give them a healthy dose of LITFA for a couple of weeks.

Thank you so much. So Hanna scale is what all the references are on. Damn it, I saw this chart like 2 weeks ago when researching and forgot of it existence.

I will give them all water and lifting only