Help Requested-Not a Clue What This Is !

  • Thread starter Thread starter StickMan
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Sensei Jm! Summoned by the 'Bat' signal.... High 5 So, after all this, it really is a K deficiency, huh? I do see now steps that led to it, despite it growing in TLO soil, thanks to you laying down the signposts! ...Jm, can I ask if I'm barking at the wrong parked car on few things?-
What I found alarming was how you said the necrosis was progressing quickly in short amount of time... this, and the fact that you use TLO for which nute' issues are very rare, are what tipped the scales toward fungal to my eyes, as well as the 'wet', funky look of the dead tissue with the somewhat wider yellow margin between good and bad tissue; with nute' burn, the tissues at the tip usually whither and dry fast, and margins are minimal (at least initially); with deficiency, tissue death doesn't happen nearly as fast as you observed, and often the tips go chlorotic, maybe some spotting, before they wither....again, initially,...in advanced symptoms everything is worse, but at that point the symptoms are usually bad enough to readily diagnose...

--from Sticks' description of the speed of progression, the looks of the dead tissue, and the appearance of spots away from the margins (turns out this was misunderstood, and didn't happen), I kept cruising down the 'fungal 'path on this; so, deficiency symptoms can move this fast after all? ...it certainly explains why there wasn't any gradual change in the tissues appearance, and why it looked 'wet' to me... Am I wrong about that in general, or is this this something of an exceptional case? (ditto for nute' burn)... also, could there still be fungal invasion compounding this, secondarily to the symptoms of deficiency?

Waira, yes in hoopy. Holes are drilled in the side at the base, just like plastic commercial containers. In fact, I added additional holes a couple of days ago. No water came out, as I was expecting might happen.....Did snip and yes I always dip, but never assume right. I was constantly getting bitten in the ass when I was a construction foreman, and would assume that a journeyman knew what they were doing, just because they said "yea I know how to do that" NOT!

LOL! yeah, I thought I saw it in the pic at my thread, but was too busy writing to go back and confirm.... About the drainage holes- now you tell me! LOL! Of course you drilled them properly, but I had to throw a dart at something! ditto for the alcohol dipping!.. but not just for resterilizing, the extra alcohol stays on the edge a bit longer, and dessicates the tissues some... seems to help seal it up better...

Why just the one plant out of 20+ in the same growing medium and environment? Not necessarily a question, but more of an WTF.:shrug:
Maybe strain-specific sensitivity, or just plain bad-luck-of-the-draw....

AFN.. where everday I'm forced to further my education in horticulture so I might teach others.. :roflcry:

Good stuff eh?
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Thank you very much, Jm! Some of us actually like to try and help bail out a friends boat,.. but I don't like to wake up finding that I'm chewing on my own ass instead of the problems'!! :yoinks: :roflcry: Please, anytime you see me barking at the proverbial parked car, swat my snout with a rolled up newspaper and point me toward the right direction!! If I'm going to take the time to help, I wanna actually help!! LMAO!! Evil Laugh x
 
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--from Sticks' description of the speed of progression, the looks of the dead tissue, and the appearance of spots away from the margins (turns out this was misunderstood, and didn't happen), I kept cruising down the 'fungal 'path on this; so, deficiency symptoms can move this fast after all? ...it certainly explains why there wasn't any gradual change in the tissues appearance, and why it looked 'wet' to me... Am I wrong about that in general, or is this this something of an exceptional case? (ditto for nute' burn)... also, could there still be fungal invasion compounding this, secondarily to the symptoms of deficiency?
the key here is a misunderstanding... you say "it looks like dead tissue" and you followed the fungal path... :check: correct from conventional point of view... the question is why does the fungal problem come in? a healthy plant wont get fungus... period. so we see plants as healthy because they arent sick... like people... but we all know cancer isnt there when you're born ... it develops... through compounded problems... sorry... sidetrack...


back to plants.. so fungus and insects are natures cleanup crew... insects are garbage collectors.. and fungus clean up whats left and break it down to the least possible componenets over time. but fungus cant penetrate the tissue of a healthy plant because its producing its own essential oils that protect the fungus from breaking down the pectin layer which protects the leaf and stems etc.

so ultimately a fungus is a RESULT of a DEFICIENCY. Not many people have seen truly healthy plants believe it or not. We are MUCH close when using TLO. There are many reason behind this.. but a lot of it is biology (fungal and bacterial - typically missing) and a HUGE part is TRACE elements.... so far, scientists have disocvered some 80 other elements besides Micros and Macros that plants use if they are there. and the biology in the soil uses the same processes... and so do we.

So in our food chain... we spray chemicals on unhealthy plants to protect them from the garbage collectors so we can eat it.... :brow:


the SHORT answer... is that fungus is only doing what you said... "Eating DEAD tissue"

:smokeit:

your advice otherwise was :point: Waira... cheers!
 
the cells in the dead tissue areas have ruptured and released contents into the extracellular space- something the fungi love! a nutrient broth basically, which is also why the symptoms are advancing quickly... so yeah, I think it's fungal,... I sure don't like the looks of the necrotic areas; they look 'wet', and the yellow margins on the lead edge is also suspect....spotting,... often, but not always, this fungal invasion is caused by tissues already under some stress.... since it's only at the tips,.... LOL! this is where things get uncertain to me.... tip trouble is almost always a nute' issue, but too much or defcnt.???
Thanks Jm- I'm glad I was sniffing down the right path, more or less, on this,... I wonder if Stickman has put in some sort of Silica supp' into the TLO, or maybe should apply a foliar spray of it to help,...:gthumb:
* sorry about the handle, Jm....
 
Reading back through... I'd almost definetly say (without beinbg able to heft your container) that you have a wet soil condition... whioh is becoming root rot now... and sending the plant into
Proteolysis..... So... the best thing you can do is try to dry out the soil by not watering.. adding air holes / drain holes... etc.. mean time.. the best help you can give it is some foliar feeds so it has a food source until it can (maybe) correct its situation... too wet prevents enough air from getting between the soil particles for the microbes to breathe... when they die... they stop producing nutrients.. which is why you have potassium deficincieny.

Hey jm, when I read this I could visualize it in my mind the micos basically drowning with too much water.
Anyway, as soon as I read this, I immediately went out and poked 3/4 holes in bottom and sides of all 3 30 gallon tubs. When I drilled into the bottom, the soil was not soggy but still wetter than I would have liked to see it. Set tubs up on bricks. Went, in and mixed up some EWC/Guano/BSM tea (for foliar feeding) and started aerating it.

I could then breathe, and so inspected plants. To my utter dismay ALL plants even those in my tent, are now exhibiting the same damage to leaf tips. Photos and Autos of different ages in several different sizes and types of growing containers. And this definitely just showed up on other plants today.

Where should I go from here ?

 
* sorry about the handle, Jm....
dont even mention it... just dont want people thinking I'm some god... I am not... a human like the rest of you... at least to my knowledge.. hehe

Well stickman... that confirms the deficiency and all similar issues.. luckily you had on show up earlier...

might try a light shot of molasses (1/2 tsp / gallon) as a watering feed... i had some stallers a few days ago i could tell were too wet... and they were starting to swing in that bad direction... i gave them a light shot of molasses and fish / kelp (liquid)

you have to treat them as Organic Hydroponics temporarily... weird right?

if some sun could hit your containers that would help as well...

that ewc foliar should be done early morning justb as the sun is rising so they can dry quickle after... otherwise you will feed the fungus which are now present, eating, and hungry...

Glad you could visualize it... I know you goit it when you tell me that. :smokeit: :gthumb:
I wonder if Stickman has put in some sort of Silica supp' into the TLO, or maybe should apply a foliar spray of it to help,...
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Silica is a fantastic thing to add for resistance and strength... there is a liquid product... forget what its called atm... but it works very well.
 
remember now too... when you correct it... the correction will take time to show... just like when you're sick... so be patient as best you can...
How often should I foliar feed, as I don't have a clue in a situation like this?

Do I want to treat with any kind of fungicide or just foliar feed?

might try a light shot of molasses (1/2 tsp / gallon) as a watering feed... i had some stallers a few days ago i could tell were too wet... and they were starting to swing in that bad direction... i gave them a light shot of molasses and fish / kelp (liquid)
Please bear with me on this, as I am more confused than I usually am. In a previous post you advised me to let the soil dry out good. Are you saying here that I should try a light shot of molasses (1/2 tsp / gallon) as a watering feed straight away?

:peace:
 
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dont even mention it... just dont want people thinking I'm some god... I am not... a human like the rest of you... at least to my knowledge.. hehe
LOL!... only if Sitar music surrounds your general proximity with no visible source of origin! :jaw: .......Being half Japanese, I'm used to the term being used in a very everyday, non-grandiose manner, simply as 'instructor', could be for ikebana (flower arranging), judo, etc.,.... **** Oh, Pro-Tekt, by Dyna-grow is the Si supplement of choice at the nursery and home; derived from Potassium silicate, has an 0-0-3 score... We love it!
Aw cripes, Stickbrother! :face: doesn't that just figure... Well, as Jm says, now ya know...! great idea on the extra holes and brick elevation... foliar supp' spray, :check:,... Jm, should a hit of neem, maybe tip-focused, be applied later that day, but still in time to dry? or wait until the next day? Also, would copper or sulphur sprays be a better choice? I've not had this fight yet, so I just don't know,...
Thank you sir!

**LOL! -Stick, we were asking the same ? at the same time, just saw your post after mine went up!
 
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