Mg def, or light intensity?

[Olderfart]

Hi @Waira,

Thanks for getting back. The CQ is still growing well, about an inch a day or so, and the new leaves are looking a bit better. The old ones may be improving slightly, but not much if at all.

I am still doing foliars of ~1000EC biased to the micros in the 3 part mix.

The reservoir is back to ~1200EC MC as I think I am seeing hints of tip burn after I upped it to ~1350EC.

I haven't chased any of the other products yet - it would only be by Amazon, and the Canadian site has limited selection of the fancy stuff. My yucca arrived, and I am using it in both the foliar and reservoir.

As to the lights, they are screw in bulbs with the diffusers removed, so all bare small white leds pointed at the plants. A picture of the lights is in the initial page of my current grow linked below. I just reduced them to ~240 watts total at ~36" from the plant tops. I have been backing them off on power and distance since the above photos. The watts are measured from the wall. I do not understand why the lights should have been a problem given the specs for quantum boards that must be very similar in output. Maybe the CQ is just intolerant. Or maybe the bare leds in the screw ins are stronger than the watts would indicate. Anyway, I will leave them in the current position for now and see how it goes for a few days. If I still see light stress after a couple days at the current setup, I will either back them off further, or go to 20/4, or both.

The lights are on 24/7 at the moment in order to keep temps and humidity in range all the time. If I turn them off, I am concerned that temps and humidity will get out of whack. I am not on 24 hours for yield, just to control the environment. I don't care about the small amount of extra electricity used. The extra amounts to about $.05/day here, so maybe a couple bucks for the rest of the grow. Mephisto seems to think that the 24 hour treatment is ok, and they do it for the same reason I am, to keep growing conditions within target.

Thanks again for your help Waira, I appreciate it. I will keep you posted on whether the reduced light improves things.

 

[Olderfart]

... they look better than the original pics OF, so that's a good sign,... Did I mention that immobile micronute defc.'s are a bitch to fix? .... I looks similar to what I went through with some of mine in the past... it's getting in, but not getting ahead, micro's are getting used up as fast as it goes in, so with little to spare, full correction is slow if ever.... Did you check out that Optic Foliar link?
As they grow/stretch, and getting closer to the lights, that can become a mitigating factor,.. I do see a lot of folding, so called "canoe'ing", which is usually a response to overly strong light.. the leaves are trying to shape themselves so as to reduce the directness of the light striking the plant,... I'm told that the so called "praying" (strongly upward angling) is also a response to this,... So, let's double check on this, what lights are where, how close,... And I forget your light schedule? If it's 24/0, get off that ASAP.... From what I see and read, with little exception, the difference between 24/0 and 20/4 is so small it's basically pointless.....
T and RH% are fine!
Have you evaluated the micronute content between both nute lines? I'm not sure if one is better than the other,...
Foliars still happening? that too can be overdone, and the build-up on the leaf a potential issue,... a clean rinse may be wise if they look hazed over with residues,.....
MC is better at veg' than bloom, a common opinion by users here,... look into using a PK booster, MC has plenty of K, but is weak on P IMO,...their Bud Explosion is very K heavy, better for later stages bloom, not so much for earlier....
Did you say you found some EJ Microblast?

Hello again @Waira I had a look on Amazon.ca, and no luck on the optic foliar transport. There are a couple other optic foliar things on there, for ~$90 per liter, which ain't gonna happen, but no transport for any price.

Do you have any suggestions for a source of extra P that could be added to the MC+Bud explosion mix? I have the Bud Explosion now, and intend to use some of it once the stretch is more or less done.

Re. the micronutes in the two fertilizer lines, no I haven't compared them specifically, partly lazy, and partly because they are delivered differently in the two lines, so simple comparisons might not mean much. In any case, the plants are getting micros from MC via the reservoir, and from the 3 part via foliar.

I will post some more pics in a day or two which will give a better idea about how the new growth is doing. At the rate the CQ is going, I may run out of room even in my tall grow space. Both 24C's seem happy. Ironically the one that almost ended up in the compost pile might outperform its sister.

 

[Olderfart]

@Waira I had a look on Amazon.ca, and Earth Juice Microblast is there, for ~$90 for a gallon, which is too rich for me. Amazon.com has the liter size listed for ~$30, but unlikely to be in stock and/or get here soon enough to make much difference. So, plan A will be to continue doing what I am now doing. I will keep an eye out for deposits from the foliar, and give the girls a rinse if I see anything.

 

[Waira]

product availability, diversity and shipping in Canada is a bloody crime IMO! OF is based in CA I think, so why the products are so $$ and hard to find is a serious pisser... Maybe for kicks, go to the OF website and see about distributors,.. you can get sizes as small as 2oz I believe,... could be the Amazon in CA is bowing to other restrictions, but dedicated horticultural supply stores aren't....
Well, with lights, watt's are only relevant when considering power draw, not how much actual (PAR) light you're getting....
As for 24/0, all i can say is it's a bit of a gamble on each plats response to it.. I've seen plenty that did not like it, others seem fine,... strain to strain, even pheno's on occasion,... leaf symptoms from possible light intensity may not "fix", a better measure will be if it help slow or halt the progression of other micronute defc. symptoms,...lights are plenty far away now! let's see what a few days brings,...
I suggest getting a small space heater with a thermostat, if that's an option....
BE is very K heavy, not the best for early to mid+ bloom, IMO more P than K is important during this stage, or a more or less even ratio,... Again, it comes down to what you can get and it's price! Look for something that low-to-no N, like GH KoolBloom 0-10-10, or something with a strong P bias.. lots of them out there, mmost are very hot, like 0-50-30 or something like that,....just dilute it down!

 

[Olderfart]

product availability, diversity and shipping in Canada is a bloody crime IMO! OF is based in CA I think, so why the products are so $$ and hard to find is a serious pisser... Maybe for kicks, go to the OF website and see about distributors,.. you can get sizes as small as 2oz I believe,... could be the Amazon in CA is bowing to other restrictions, but dedicated horticultural supply stores aren't....
Well, with lights, watt's are only relevant when considering power draw, not how much actual (PAR) light you're getting....
As for 24/0, all i can say is it's a bit of a gamble on each plats response to it.. I've seen plenty that did not like it, others seem fine,... strain to strain, even pheno's on occasion,... leaf symptoms from possible light intensity may not "fix", a better measure will be if it help slow or halt the progression of other micronute defc. symptoms,...lights are plenty far away now! let's see what a few days brings,...
I suggest getting a small space heater with a thermostat, if that's an option....
BE is very K heavy, not the best for early to mid+ bloom, IMO more P than K is important during this stage, or a more or less even ratio,... Again, it comes down to what you can get and it's price! Look for something that low-to-no N, like GH KoolBloom 0-10-10, or something with a strong P bias.. lots of them out there, mmost are very hot, like 0-50-30 or something like that,....just dilute it down!

Thanks for the info @Waira, I will check the local garden store today to see what they might have in stock.

Yeah, I was amused to find that OF is a Canadian company. Maybe over time their stuff will get marketed more up here, but not yet it seems. MC has certainly pulled up their socks on this one, which is nice to see. They offer their stuff both directly and through an Amazon store, and both work just fine. Given legalization up here, I would think it smart for any company in this game to get their act together on marketing hydroponic stuff in Canada.

Thanks again for helping us noobs Waira, it is nice to see once again how a collaborative online effort can accomplish so much.

 

[Olderfart]

Day 56, lights backed well off, ~36" and ~350 watts for several days. Now feeding ~1350 EC mixed from 4G/gal MC, 1.5g calmag pro, 1g bud explosion, 1g sweet candy, reservoir pH always between 5.8 and 6.2. @Waira, the pics are of the larger of the two 24 Carat which seems to still have a nute issue going on, or perhaps it is just starting to wind down. I would be interested in your opinion. I think I see a bit of both calcium and magnesium def, but I don't know why given the inputs. In theory, the 24C's may only have a few weeks to go, so perhaps they are just shutting down. However, the older leaves are still the greenest. More generalized pics are in my most recent post in the grow journal yesterday.

Here are today's pics, day 56 from sprout:

I stopped foliar applications because flowering is well underway, and I did not want to encourage mould. I tried higher EC levels for a couple days, but lowered it to ~1300 after seeing nute burned tips. I think I can still see very slight tip burn on new growth.

Thanks for the help Waira, and all the best for the holidays.

 

[Waira]

Hey OF, likewise!

...I think the color coming on is normal expression mostly,.. minor P defc. can show like this too,.. a ton of K going in now, might be part or most of the tip/margin teeth burning,...I see the necrotic patches, probably lingering P defc., but at the top like this, a micronute may also be involved too (B and Mo come to mind)..
Too much Ca can mess with P availability,... too much K screws with Ca availability-! ... this is why remote diagnostics can be a bitch.... check out Mulder's Chart, which I affectionately call the Wheel of Confusion-
...late ripening calls for less and less nutes in general, those last couple weeks give or take,... MC is pretty loaded with Ca and Mg, maybe dial the CaMg pro back or eliminate it... Ditto for the K inputs, SC is very K rich but does have other proper final stage goodies in it, so this is a tought call concerning BE use.. if that's the sole P input besides the MC, I think it's not been enough longer term, and unless you found a more balanced PK booster, you're stuck... I suspect, don't know, that the lack of P earlier on has made for poorer bud:leaf ratio in the bud than what this strain has shown, along with some of the other symptoms,.. Not much to do now, looks like maybe 2 weeks to done, hard to say without scoping the trich's.. Do what you can, and next round have something more P rich to use, and we'll see if that improves things,.. ditto for micronutes, they play huge role is metabolism and interactions with other nutes, and lack of them can make for bottlenecks in availability/metabolism/performance of other nutes even there's plenty of those nutes around,...

 

[Olderfart]

Thanks very much for your input @Waira, your help here is a major part of the effectiveness of this site for us new growers. My next grow will likely be next winter, pretty much my only annual window, sad to say, so in the meantime I will do a tad more digging on nutes, especially P. If I had been on MC from the beginning, and not made my EC mistakes, the grow might have gone better. Certainly others on here seem to do very well with the MC option. Anyway, it seems that I will get some nice bud out of the exercise, so lots learned and bud in the cupboard is all good.

Also, the CQ is happier, and piling on the bud, so I should get some nice bud off her too.

Thanks again for your help!

 

[Olderfart]

@Waira, I now have some soluble Potassium in my Amazon cart. Not much help for this grow, but next year...

And thanks for the link to the Wheel of Confusion. Actually the info there is all good, great link.

 

[Waira]

my pleasure mate! ...check out Dabber and F.N., their grows with MC and other GLN products are spectacular = Dabber in particular caught on early to the MC only vs. using a PK booster along with it, and showed definite bud quality improvement doing so... As always, strain to strain, even pheno' differences in response, needs performance etc. are in play,... there's nothing wrong with mixing up some nutes from other lines, so long as you asses the completeness of them in comparison to the rest of your line up... As mentioned before, BE is meant as a supplement, it's a very limited formulation and lacks many other nutes, so it can't be used as a "base" bloom nutrient... and also, cutting down on MC means you're cutting down on all the other things in it that are not covered by such supp's like BE... I don't know if you can get it up there, but Roots Organics make a line called Terp Tea; I used the bloom formula (a complete one) 3-7-4, and liked it very much... I gave the plants in bloom occasional hits of MC, and Open Sesame (big time PK#'s), but Terp Tea was the primary bloom nute.. good stuff, and not that $$!
The buds look good, and some manky fans are of no importance by harvest time.. it's their job to give up what mobile nutes they have in them to support bud development... This is why I lean on micro's like I do, because the plant can't store and translocate them, most are immobile....