Opinions on Cannabis Cups

[BII]

What is your definition of a seed selling company? I mean AFN has been home to many growers-turned-breeders, and I've seen better reviews on some of our "small time, indie" breeders than I have with some of the larger companies that have represented here in the past. Would you consider Gnome Automatics small time? I've seen entire farms with Dan's genetics on them, his autoflowers sold as flower in dispensaries, and concentrates made from his flower sold in dispensaries. But he doesn't breed on a large outfit or a farm?

I get most of my info. about strains/seeds of interest from AFN. So yes I regularly grow seads from seemingly individual grower's companies, such as Laughing Hyena. But if there is a big public festival, if it's not really a venue for serious cannabis judging, I'd prefer it be blatantly commercial - the entrants skewed towards mainstream international breeders/seed manufacturers. Let the commercial 'cups' judge the 'commercial' breeders/seed companies products.

A conventional commercialized 'cup' is not what AFN seems to want. Maybe we/AFN shouldn't be using the term 'cup.' Its use brings up too many preconceptions.

 

[Antonio_DutchPassion]

I'm gonna have to attend one of these Cannabis Cups, I kind of doubt if I would enter one.
I'd really like to attend one, just to experience different cannabis strains. I might be able to get some ideas of what I would want to grow. New experiences and information would be my reasons for attendance.

Now, there's the 'other' side of a Cannabis Cup, a larger driving factor for some, not very important in my own personal thinking.
And I think we all know that is Bragging Rights!

I kind of think that's why I would probably never seriously enter a Cannabis Cup. I just really don't feel the need to brag or to get approval from peers. The approval that I consider valuable comes from the people that use my medicine. As long as it works for them, I'm good.

I do find it a bit amusing that I wouldn't want to be competitive in a Cannabis Cup. My semi midlife crisis interest in drag racing, would be considered quite in the competitive genre. Who was at the top of the 1/4 mile list was always a major concern. When being at the VERY TOP of the list wasn't possible, the sub-categories were 'invented'.
Quickest/Fastest automatic
Quickest/Fastest stick
Quickest/Fastest Bone Stock
Quickest/Fastest Stock Long block Naturally aspirated..................I STILL hold that record after 20yrs ago this fall.

The correlation over to drag racing has multiple parts of extreme similarities in actions and reasoning. Both the racer and the grower get self satisfaction from being at the top. Both the racer and the grower have to put a lot of work into the results.
Aftermarket automotive parts suppliers and cannabis breeders, share in the glory when one of their users wins, for all the same reasons and results.

For everyone it is different ofc, long time ago I put myself a goal to win 50 cups, done all by myself, sometimes I send it in for different companies, especially back in the day, some are on my seed label I share with friends and the bulk of them for Dutch Passion, about 30, I'm now just over 40 total toprhies, so still have some to go.. lol it's not perse bragging rights for me, more a solid test (if not the only test) to compare my gear with the best growers out there, especially since I started breeding myself for me winning is sort of the cherry on the cake.. if I win with my own sample, also bred by myself, and manage to win from 10-30 other companies/growers? Well, I'm sure as hell proud of that and don't mind sharing that with others!

As this suggests, do the festival-type 'cups' include competitors and exhibitors giving out free samples? Do festivals have areas set up for attendees to consume, trade/swap or even give away samples (no money exchanges allowed)?

The 230 grams sample required to enter a cup, as mentioned by @Antonio_DutchPassion, seems fair to me, presuming they eventually grind-up this large sample and test from that. The larger the sample provided, I presume the more "fair" any testing will be, particularly lab testing. Otherwise, grower's will surely cherry-pick a few very best buds for testing (as dispensary growers presumably do). Also, larger samples allow appearance to be judged better. [Where is this 230 gram entry sample done? What even 'legal' US states or countries actually allow possession, much less transfer, of >1/2 lb.? How are samples delivered - in person, sent by mail/package delivery service? It seems some significant law-breaking, state and federal, is involved in hosting a 'cup?']

If a cup organizer or sponsors want only established seed companies to be the only or dominant entrants, high costs can effectively screen out, eliminate the small timers. I can fully understand major seed companies, presumably often cup sponsors, not wanting to compete along with individual growers, and vice versa. Also, as an end-consumer, I'm really only interested in what I can buy from seed selling companies. I have little or no interest in strains/seeds developed by individuals or very small companies where the seeds are not readily available from established seed selling sources.

Fair? Lol, that's really a ridiculous amount bro... some cups have about 30-35 contesttants in one category, Indica or Sativa for example. Let's say there are 40, then you got 10kg of primo bud to organise one category? And people that judge just smoke 1-2grams max, to me this is just silly AF. With each contestant paying 1k to enter, you have 40k + 10kg weed = another 50k, so 90k... well if that ain't a commercial rip-off I don't know what is....

Having a sample size of 1-2,5g for each judge/contestant seems fair to me. The Spannabis Champions Cup (kinda biggest cup of mainland Europe) uses 2-2,5g per sample, 6 official industry judges so you need to send 15g of product. Others like the Highlife Cup or Homegrown Cup use around 1-2,5g per sample per judge/contestant as well. A the Homegrown Cup, everyone that competes is also a judge, so its really peer reviewed, pretty nice, with around about 25-35 samples competing in a category, you need to smoke/evaluate and judge around 30 samples in each category during a 1-2 day period, so having more than 1g is definitely not needed If you compete in 2 categories that's about 50 samples to smoke in a 24-48hr period, which is also pretty crazy haha..

For the Highlife Cup, the judges officially get a few months to smoke a few hundred samples (if they judge all the categories). But some of them just do a few, or just all the Hash or just all the flower samples. In my opinion to do it right, max 1-3 joints per day is max to judge properly. So I think this is the right way to do it.. but also has it flaws..

That's over 8 ounces! You are very, very generous. lol

The average weight in grams for testing cannabinoids in flower is VERY low. A very rough ballpark is around 3 grams (and some labs require less, I have seen up to 1.5 grams for a cannabinoid test.) Full panel pathogen testing can be done with a couple of grams.

Commercial grows send larger samples to labs because they are testing for BATCHES, but even then the numbers are extremely low. A 4 gram sample weight can dictate the numbers for <10 pounds in Colorado. That should instantly tell you why "high THC" and "high terpene" testing is important marketing, because those are the numbers that dictate what shelf your flower sits on (and what price it fetches wholesale and what price it fetches retail.)

Here is Nordic Analytical in Pueblo, Colorado, this is the lab that most farms in that area do their testing with. You could do full panel testing, cannabinoids, and terpenes with about 10 grams.

View attachment 1761042

That leaves a lot of flower on the table for... who? Exactly? Someone is enjoying the shit out of your smoke.



Not even a presumption, happens all day every day. There are regulatory guidelines for how to choose samples, but there is no real oversight into how you actually do it. And labs don't give a shit, they will take your money all day whether you cherry picked or doctored a sample.



Not to pick on the American Autoflower Cup (but I'm going to,) they are pulling in random growers from all over the country (but it's not a very big event, and I believe they consider it a private one. We can pretend it's not happening, but laws are quite likely being broken for these growers to mail, travel with, or otherwise cross so many state lines with what is otherwise illegal contraband. I don't think many cups would have taken place if everyone was 110% about the law, and I can just about guarantee that these cups have a "you can mail us your shit, but don't tell anyone and we won't publicly advertise this as an option" option (wink wink.)



What is your definition of a seed selling company? I mean AFN has been home to many growers-turned-breeders, and I've seen better reviews on some of our "small time, indie" breeders than I have with some of the larger companies that have represented here in the past. Would you consider Gnome Automatics small time? I've seen entire farms with Dan's genetics on them, his autoflowers sold as flower in dispensaries, and concentrates made from his flower sold in dispensaries. But he doesn't breed on a large outfit or a farm?

A 10g for a lab-sample indeed seems still a bit too much, but every lab is different. Here in Europe we can do cannabinoid/terpene testing with about 1-3g per sample, depending on which lab you use. Obviously we send the best hand-selected samples to the lab to get the highest results, but at least everything we post/share is based on real lab samples, instead of just saying we got 30%-35% THC or even more, as is sometimes being done with other companies...

I read several articles about labs across your side of the pond that just hype up numbers to get customers... We always have the discussion here with the team what the absolute max would be a cannabis flower can hold.. because with 40% THC, knowing it is only present in the trichome-head there is not much room left for the normal structure/biology of a bud.... right?

 

[WildBill]

For everyone it is different ofc, long time ago I put myself a goal to win 50 cups, done all by myself, sometimes I send it in for different companies, especially back in the day, some are on my seed label I share with friends and the bulk of them for Dutch Passion, about 30, I'm now just over 40 total toprhies, so still have some to go.. lol it's not perse bragging rights for me, more a solid test (if not the only test) to compare my gear with the best growers out there, especially since I started breeding myself for me winning is sort of the cherry on the cake.. if I win with my own sample, also bred by myself, and manage to win from 10-30 other companies/growers? Well, I'm sure as hell proud of that and don't mind sharing that with others!

Don't get me wrong, if I were in your shoes, I know I would have the same attitude.
To win a cup amongst many other companies and growers, is definitely a feather in your cap and most assuredly something to be proud of accomplishing!

I guess, In respective to cannabis, I'm perfectly happy with guys like you doing the hard work and producing quality genetics that make it that much easier for me to do what I do! I know that I grow the cleanest natural product possible and try to give my girls a great environment and a good choice in the things that let them show their fullest genetic potential.

 

[BII]

So with judges at most getting a few grams of each entry, judging obviously does not include bud appearance, just lab. results and/or the judges consuming and voting? There are no awards for most attractive, biggest, etc. buds or plants? Do judges typically never see the plant at all; or do they view pictures of the relevant plant as it was grown or a single picture at harvest?

Some respondents cite the breeders/genetics/seed sources, usually companies, as the entrants/contestants/winners, while others cite individual breeders and growers. Are there really two winners for each cup prize - the breeder/seed source and the grower (which sometimes could be the same individual)?

 

[Antonio_DutchPassion]

So with judges at most getting a few grams of each entry, judging obviously does not include bud appearance, just lab. results and/or the judges consuming and voting? There are no awards for most attractive, biggest, etc. buds or plants? Do judges typically never see the plant at all; or do they view pictures of the relevant plant as it was grown or a single picture at harvest?

Usually they give points for Looks, Aroma, Taste, Effect

So bud appearance is definitely in there, but it won't be from a big 10-20g main cola no, but personally I don't see the added value of that for such an event, it's about bag appeal, and even with a 0,5-2g bud you can perfectly see it's colour, frost, structure etc.

No they don't see any pictures, they just receive the buds and evaluate.. for example when wine is tasted at a judging event, nobody is passing down pictures of the grapes or vinyards too right? It's simply about the end-product, not the road to it.

Although I must say, it would be nice if everybody had the obligation to show pictures of the plants they grew, this way you kick out all the people competing with other samples then their own..

Some respondents cite the breeders/genetics/seed sources, usually companies, as the entrants/contestants/winners, while others cite individual breeders and growers. Are there really two winners for each cup prize - the breeder/seed source and the grower (which sometimes could be the same individual)?

Yeah how they do it depends on the cup, usually it's one prize (never seen 2 prizes being handed over myself) the one that does the entry wins the cup. So if it is a grower, they win the cup, if they use a registered strain name of let's say DP in this case, they win a cup with our strain, so we 'won' a cup (on paper) as well. We don't get the trophy but obviously they add it to the total list of cups that were won.

In my case, 30 of the 100+ cups by DP are won were my samples, but they received the 'cups'. Some of the trophies I took home though lol, but it's under their umbrella if you know what I mean

 

[Son of Hobbes]

@Antonio_DutchPassion is Dutch Passion participating in the American Autoflower Cup?