pH out of control. No idea why its climbing so hi so fast.

[Mike20132]

I went through several pens, and had all sorts of trouble with pH for a while there. get a good pen, one with temperature compensation. Don't measure in the bubbles, and take good care of the bulb sensor, rinse after every use.

here's a link to a review I did on mine:
https://www.autoflower.org/threads/ggs-giant-greens.59188/page-7#post-1555352

Sometimes calmag will cause that overnight up spike. It's happened to me several times. Sometimes it takes a while to change, you can add several capfulls of pH down before you know it and swing back the other way and get 4 pH.

I am still confused by this because in theory calmag should lower the pH. But if adding it to a reservoir with nutes at a high PPM, it is having some kind of reaction in there that makes it go up.


perhaps this helps. perhaps it's crazy, and I misinterpreted the problem.

Yours is at least the third mention of that meter that I have seen in the past few weeks. I currently have an HM Digital PH-200, and I am not entirely sure there is a problem with it, but I won't know until I get the 4.0 calibration solution I ordered. I was just calibrating it to 7.0. The symptom is that it never seems to settle on a final reading. I expect that with .01 accuracy, it would fluctuate around the proper reading, but in this case it just continuously declines until it is clearly different than the rough reading I got with the reagent solution test. I think that with that, and the problems I am having with my PPM meter of the same manufacture, I might switch to the model you use and be done with HM digital products altogether. My experience with them so far has been generally negative.

I did experience the same exact symptom you described when adding calmag. Were you using an organic formulation? Though I still seem to have the same problem with the calimagic that I bought to replace the original calmag.

 

[Mike20132]

Just had a chance to test the solution - still just over 6.5. Adding pH down in .5 mL increments every couple of hours until I see it start to fall.

As a possibly positive development, PPMs are staying stable, so at least I know the plant is taking up some of the nutes now.

 

[Mike20132]

Anyone have any experience with something like this: https://edenbluegold.com/product/blue-gold-ph-down/

It sounds like a great way to enhance the pH buffering of the nutes without actually adding more nutrients (and no phosphoric acid, which I understand has an undesirable reaction with dissolved oxygen)

 

[Rev. Green Genes]

I have been using Earth Juice Double Down, and Double Up. They are organic. It has two forms of acid in it, I do not remember the formulation.The nutes I use are not organic, there are few of those for hydro. I use Green Planet Hydro Fuel 2 part, and a few additives. I have been very very careful when amending the rez since that happened the first time. It has never happened unless I add calmag+ to an active nute solution. Hopefully Waira can explain why it does that. My guess is a lockout that binds up cations with the calcium in the rez and causes a temporary buffer for the acid we are adding. At some point through the night the process reverses and you get a true pH reading. (thats the part I can't figure)

Which brings me to the advice part. I have fixed it by waiting it out and checking for two days after adjustment. I stopped bothering with it, and only add calmag to the rez during complete water changes. If I get a def. I will use a spray. This allows to me to add base nutes or whatever without the spikes.

The other two best brands for pH meters are Oakton and Blu Labs.

Good luck Mike.

 

[Mike20132]

I have been using Earth Juice Double Down, and Double Up. They are organic. It has two forms of acid in it, I do not remember the formulation.The nutes I use are not organic, there are few of those for hydro. I use Green Planet Hydro Fuel 2 part, and a few additives. I have been very very careful when amending the rez since that happened the first time. It has never happened unless I add calmag+ to an active nute solution. Hopefully Waira can explain why it does that. My guess is a lockout that binds up cations with the calcium in the rez and causes a temporary buffer for the acid we are adding. At some point through the night the process reverses and you get a true pH reading. (thats the part I can't figure)

Which brings me to the advice part. I have fixed it by waiting it out and checking for two days after adjustment. I stopped bothering with it, and only add calmag to the rez during complete water changes. If I get a def. I will use a spray. This allows to me to add base nutes or whatever without the spikes.

The other two best brands for pH meters are Oakton and Blu Labs.

Good luck Mike.

This new calmag suppliment I have does say on the bottle to add it to water before adding anything else. It did not occur to me that topping off an established res with a fresh mix of nutes/calmag would be problematic. In retrospect, doing so was contrary to the directions on the bottle. I think I will follow your lead and only apply it with spray if needed, and keep it out of the res altogether.

These Earth Juice products sound appealing as well. I'll be ordering some tomorrow. Thanks for taking the time to help a noobie

 

[Mike20132]

Small update if anyone is still following this thread...

I've flushed the res with distilled water and then added fresh nutes without the calmag. The pH of the nutes was about 5.7. Tested two hours later and its hovering near 7 again.

I should point out that by "flush," I mean to drain the water via siphon and refill. I have not yet (because I am not sure how to do so with what I have on hand) removed the res and really cleaned it proper.

Either something is going on with the roots or the tank. @Waira Should I expect to find a layer of sediment on the bottom of the res? Is that what you meant by fouling? I haven't been able to inspect it yet, and wont likely be able to until the morning. But I have a feeling there will be precipitated salts there.

 

[Rev. Green Genes]

sediment? are you using unwashed clay? If it is not clay sediment, than you have a strange problem indeed. Can you get us a pic of your setup?

 

[MedGrower]

Hey @Mike20132 I had similar issue with my latest grow I just finished, Seed Stockers NL Automatic that I grew. Around couple week into the generative period and during the peak feed time I noticed the pH pushing up really fast and I had to do corrections for the pH twice a day. This with approx 21 litres of solution and one huge plant. I aimed to keep the pH around 6.0 to 6.3 and several times I took a reading after 12 hours and found it to be around 6.5 to even 6.8 at the worst. This was with Remo Nutrients. EC remained somewhat stable. Problem persisted through the peak feeding and normalized at the later part of the generative period.

I honestly don't know what could be causing this but I have some thoughts on it. I think the bacteria at the rhizosphere is preferring to eat up what ever molecule that is maintaining the acidity of the solution. It would be good to try different acidity adjusters that bases on different compounds. Also, do you use carbohydrate supplementation and/or beneficial bacteria? Usage of these kind of products may (just my own ponderings) may magnify this issue also.

Bro you need to keep on checking and adjusting the pH with what ever you can when ever you can for now. All the best!

P.S. I guess right about now you can confirm that there is no such thing as "pH perfect".

 

[Mike20132]

sediment? are you using unwashed clay? If it is not clay sediment, than you have a strange problem indeed. Can you get us a pic of your setup?

That was a poor choice of words on my part. I have not been able to visibly inspect the bottom of the tank, and I was trying to figure out what "fouling" meant. I thought it might be similar to something I think I saw earlier on, which was a dark, cloudy condition of the solution that I drained. As if the nutes had precipitated out of solution.

 

[Mike20132]

Hey @Mike20132 I had similar issue with my latest grow I just finished, Seed Stockers NL Automatic that I grew. Around couple week into the generative period and during the peak feed time I noticed the pH pushing up really fast and I had to do corrections for the pH twice a day. This with approx 21 litres of solution and one huge plant. I aimed to keep the pH around 6.0 to 6.3 and several times I took a reading after 12 hours and found it to be around 6.5 to even 6.8 at the worst. This was with Remo Nutrients. EC remained somewhat stable. Problem persisted through the peak feeding and normalized at the later part of the generative period.

I honestly don't know what could be causing this but I have some thoughts on it. I think the bacteria at the rhizosphere is preferring to eat up what ever molecule that is maintaining the acidity of the solution. It would be good to try different acidity adjusters that bases on different compounds. Also, do you use carbohydrate supplementation and/or beneficial bacteria? Usage of these kind of products may (just my own ponderings) may magnify this issue also.

Bro you need to keep on checking and adjusting the pH with what ever you can when ever you can for now. All the best!

P.S. I guess right about now you can confirm that there is no such thing as "pH perfect".

Per Green Gene's suggestion, I have ordered Earth Juice Double Down, which I understand is not based on phosphoric acid, which is what I am using now. It is due to arrive tomorrow. I hope it helps.

I am using the voodoo bacteria supplement after the res flush. I will probably wind up flushing it again this weekend, and will skip the bacteria. Other than that, I am just using the standard regiment of grow/bloom/micro + big bud and b52.

And, yes, "pH Perfect" is just more marketing nonsense. I must say that it DOES work to a degree, assuming absolutely nothing at all goes wrong. And if nothing goes wrong, you really don't need it anyway, do ya