New Grower Popping My Grow Cherry: Journal (LED + Soil+ Think Different)

[Damascus]

Welcome and thank you for checking out my first attempt at avoiding complete and utter grow failure: Project Cherry Pop (PCP)

The goal this DIY project will shoot for is simply this: Produce quality crops with minimal grow space and low costs. Obviously it will not be that simple, initially. I'll be tackling this through the usage of LED lighting and hydroponics within an airtight, homemade 72" x 30" x 30" grow chamber. The dimensions of this chamber are dictated/limited by the doorway and ceiling of the small room in which it will discreetly operate.

PCP is currently at the initial building stage and I'm hoping to soon have the final materials needed to get started. Below I have detailed the nutrients and my 2 basic system specifications; Initial and Eventual. The Initial Specs will be those immediately utilized for this first time grow while the Eventual Specs are those of the final product I plan to achieve over time, filling in the rest of the chamber's potential space.

Nutrients

• Vegetative: Iguana Juice
• Flowering: Big Bud Liquid
• Cuttings: Dyna-Gro Root-Gel

Initial System Specs (2 plants @ ~65W intermittent)

• 1x 7/16" OSB constructed 72" x 30" x 30" single interior chamber w/mylar
• 2x 14W 225 LED quad band grow light
• 1x 15W 18" Reptisun 5.0 UVB T8 lamp
• 1x 11W 4" 100 CFM inline duct fan
• 1x 8W 160 GPH submersible pump
• 1x 2.5W dual outlet air pump
• 1x 4" air stone
• 1x 8-outlet irrigation manifold
• 1x 2 gal bucket w/lid (for hydroponics)
• 1x 1 gal bucket w/lid (for diy Ona odor control)
• 2x diy CO2 "rain" system
• 2x 5" mesh net pot w/root guard lid and hydroton media

Eventual System Specs (8 plants @ ~200W intermittent)

• 1x 7/16" OSB constructed 72" x 30" x 30" dual (segregated) interior chambers w/mylar
• 8x 14W 225 LED quad band grow light
• 4x 15W 18" Reptisun 5.0 UVB T8 lamp
• 1x 11W 4" 100 CFM inline duct fan
• 2x 8W 160 GPH submersible pump
• 1x 2.5W dual outlet air pump
• 2x 4" air stone
• 2x 8-outlet irrigation manifold
• 2x 2 gal bucket w/lid (for diy hydroponics)
• 1x 1 gal bucket w/lid (for diy Ona odor control)
• 8x diy CO2 "rain" system
• 8x 5" mesh net pot w/root guard lid and hydroton media

Well that's pretty much the run down of PCP's system. How I'm actually going to go about the exact interior setup will be easier to explain once I have pics to help illustrate - then the fun will be ready to officially commence! In the meantime, I have a few worrisome issues that I need to further educate myself on before I can hit the ground running. Grow homework, here I come!

 

[Muddy]

Welcome to AFN and to the New Growers forum. I see a couple issues with your setup that you may want to give some more thought to before you proceed. First is hydro. As a new grower hydro isn't the best place to start. It's a bit more involved than soil growing and should something go wrong, which it often does, it can happen very quickly in hydro. With soil you've got more time to react. As an example, a pH problem in hydro can effect your plant within hours, where in soil it may take days, giving you more time to recognize and address the issue. I can't stress this enough. Go with soil for your first grow or two until you get a little experience under your belt. Then move up to hydro.

Second is your lights. The numbers you list for the LEDs don't compute. If it has 225 LEDs I would expect it to be listed as higher than 14w. I'm assuming it's built with 1 watt LEDs, so the actual draw is probably more like 150 - 175 watts. Your grow area is 15 sq. ft. To effectively light that area you should have a minimum of 50 watts per sq. ft, so a total of at least 750 watts. Who is the manufacturer of your lights?

Third is your ventilation. ONA should be effective for 2 plants but once you fill that space you are going to need a carbon filter. I would suggest you install one from the start and forget about using the ONA. Install a good in line fan, one pulling at lest 175 - 200 cfm, with a carbon filter. You will also need one or two small, desk top type fans for internal air circulation.

I would also suggest you either paint the interior walls white or line them with mylar or Panda film to reflect light back toward your plants.

 

[Damascus]

Ah great insight and all duly noted, Muddy! Also thanks for taking the time to reply. Sounds like I will have to alter my setup a bit.

I'm pretty green behind the ears but I'm still tempted to stick with the hydro grow versus soil, mostly because of the lower chance for pests etc. Please don't take offense. I do have a wee bit of recent grow experience and feel I'm moderately prepared for the challenges of PH control. Quick story here about that recent experience and what brought me to this point of wanting to finally grow for myself, by myself.

This is my first real grow but a couple months ago a good friend of mine that I vape with weekly confided in me that he and his wife (both professional M-F 9-5 sort of folks) no longer wanted to get their so-so quality plants from their sketch "friend" and asked if I had ever thought of growing or knew anything about it. Indeed I had for at least the past 10 years, but never shared that with anyone and never had a good living situation to safely try. I was excited and they offered a small discreet place in their home to run a setup for 2 plants. The OCD in me re-researched and designed/built a cheap, low cost 17" x 30" x 48"(H) chamber using a Rubbermaid tub and 2 of the same 225 quad LEDs I am going to use in mine. They live about an hour away and are on totally different work schedules than me, so I knew I'd only be able to go over once a week to check up. I tried sharing the info with him that I had put a lot of time into learning so he could maintain it while I wasn't there, but I could tell with the way that he kept interrupting me that I was going to be fighting his "I know best" mentality. So I told him to research anything he questioned on the internet if he needed to.

The PH was the only thing that he managed to properly keep in check, using the digital PH tester I gave him. The results of our 2 autos started off great and they appeared very healthy. But I was noticing that while I was away a week at a time that he began disregarding certain important things simply because they didn't make sense to him. His logic was pretty off and I couldn't convince him otherwise so the plants began suffering and I was getting frustrated.

A lot of it was patience-related. He plugged most of the chamber's fresh air intake "to keep the weed air inside for potency". When the leaf edges began to yellow he pulled the lighting all the way away from the plants because he thought the LEDs were burning them. They got yellower and when I got there found out he was mixing the grow solution fairly strong "to help them grow faster". Also found out that when he would check on the plants he would pour this high EC solution onto the leaves "like rain". When the roots began to brown he went online and read about it, but the only possible explanation he came across was to add in an H2O2 solution. This didn't help and found out shortly after that he had a while back removed the timers and the plants had been running on 24/7 of continuous full force water flow from their stem bases down over the root systems... root rot. When it came to fan/shade leaves I told him to leave most, if not all, of them, only holding them aside with a paperclip or something if he had to. He then read online that these leaves are bad for growth and potency and they should all be removed - he did so. I know he had good intentions, but I also had invested time and money into it. In less than 2 months we had two once-very-happy plants looking quite unhappy. That was enough for me.

Instead of starting drama I decided to removed myself from the operation and leave it in his hands, resuming my weekly visit to just our fun vape sessions. I still give him my advice if he asks but I tend not to offer it otherwise. I know, it's kind of blind leading the blind, but I've been working on my grow glasses prescription too long to not try again, on my own this time without another partner like that.

Sorry for the long story but that's probably the larger reason I'm here on AFN. I know I have a lot to learn and wanted to find a great community in which to do this.

Back to the topic at hand! I do currently have the interior lined in mylar but sounds like I'll certainly need to find a good carbon filter for upcoming implementation. For future reference, if a grow ever got large enough where I'd want to utilize both a carbon filter and Ona, which would you recommend the airflow pass through first? Or would you advise just getting a larger carbon filter?

Regarding the LEDs, I too was a little suspicious of the specs but found several similar ones with the same numbers. Is it likely because they are of a lower quality maybe? The listing doesn't mention the manufacturer but I'm fairly sure they were assembled in China - they should arrive today. Here's the pair I purchased Quad-band 450 LED Grow Light Panel Blue Red Orange White Your thoughts? The autos I'm likely going to start with aren't expected to grow to be much more than a couple feet.

Also I'm worried about the use of UVB bulbs during flowering in such close proximity to the plants. I've read all sorts of ranges all the way down to just inches away with no ill effects. I'm tempted to use the 5.0 Reptisuns versus the 10.0 ones for this cautionary reason but all of that stuff is still a big ? for me.

Again thanks for the advice and concern and sorry for the long read!

 

[Muddy]

Unfortunately, that's a fairly common tale. We see many new growers like your friend and often by the time they come to us for help it's too late. I think you made the right decision by parting ways with your friend regarding the grow. In a few months, after your harvest, you can take a nice bud over for your vape session and show him what can be accomplished when proper growing techniques are followed.

I would still urge you to reconsider on the hydro. All good quality soils like Sunshine, Pro Mix, Fox Farms, etc. have been sterilized so little risk of pests. Most common pests, like spider mites or white flies, are usually brought in from outdoors anyway, and the chances of getting them are the same whether you are growing in soil or hydro. Soil is a lot more forgiving than hydro and would improve your chances of a successful first grow.

With a good carbon filter you won't need the ONA at all. A 4" filter can easily handle the smell from a dozen or more plants. They aren't that expensive, around $60. I would suggest you put the money you would spend on the ONA towards getting a filter from the start.

What you have with those LEDs is technology that is at least 3 years old. As I'm sure you're aware, 3 years is a lifetime in regards to electronic development. Those lights are using 1 watt LEDs where today most all are using 3 watters with some of the latest ones using 5 watters. LEDs are never driven at full power, otherwise they would burn out faster, so I doubt those are drawing more than 50 or 60%, so with 225 of them, they probably are drawing somewhere around 130 or 140 watts. The 1 watt LEDs suffered from a lack of penetration. They tend to create buds that are a bit loose and fluffy, especially those lower on the plants that are farthest away from the lights. Have you only purchases the 2 at this point? If so, I would suggest having 1 over the plants and the other mounted vertically behind the plants. When you expand your grow, purchase two 240 watt units, like the Blackstar 240s from Gotham Hydro, and mount those above the plants. Then mount both the 225s vertically on the back wall for supplemental lighting. That would also eliminate the need for the UVB light since the Blackstars already have UV LEDs installed.

 

[Damascus]

I've actually been reconsidering the soil option quite a bit now since your earlier recommendation. Since I already have most of the hydro essentials purchased and assembled I may end up doing hydro in one of the two chambers and soil in the other. I have noticed that many, if not most, of the grows here are done in soil. Are there other reasons that you or others prefer a soil grow aside from simplicity and forgiveness?

In regards to your earlier fan/ventilation comment, I do have a few ready to go but they do not oscillate. Is it a problem to have fans fixed on the plants continuously while they are on or should I consider oscillating ones for better air movement and less continuous direct contact? I know the minor stress that they receive from fans is also good to produce a healthy sturdy plant but do they dry out from a continuous blow?

As for the LEDs, it makes a bit more sense now. Still not sure why all the listings are as 14W, false advertising or a gross typo across their product line maybe? Maybe the Chinese feel since 0=nada that 14W is the same as 140W lol I keed I keed. The journals I've read elsewhere in the past of people using my LEDs almost always indicated that they must keep hung quite close for decent results, likely from the low output. And because of this it's been recommended that they only be used for very short growing plants. I've been considering the 240W LEDs a bit more since they've been implementing UV but the price still keeps deterring me a bit. I'll definitely reevaluate their worth in my setup in the near future as I'm hearing lots of good things about them here.

Time to catch up on my soil grow homework I suppose and thanks again for the valuable input!

 

[Damascus]

Ohtay, so a few changes to my plans have developed due to lots insightful advice from Muddy and further AFN homework. My original journal post remains mostly the same regarding this virgin grow, with the exceptions of soil instead of hydro and a different nutrient regime. The rest is the same, though I will be upgrading significantly to different LED lighting and a carbon filter as well. Those upgrades will happen when the funds become available, as I'm one of those poor student types.

Yesterday was Day 0 as I plopped my little Think Different sisters into a shot glass of distilled water and Ziploc'ed them atop my closeted water heater. 24-48 hours of soaking was my plan.

Today is Day 1 as I prepped my soil using a 3:2:1 Pro-Mixerlite:Vermiculite mixture. I intend to use a single transplant method using two sizes of hempy pots. I have not yet decided what size I will use for the larger, final pots. Anyone have thoughts on what size containers I should consider for the roots of a Think Different? I think their max height capabilities aren't much more than 3ft in optimal soil conditions. I don't think this grow will be optimal in every sense but it seems like there are a decent range of finishing height for this strain.

After the soil prep I checked on my 24hr soaker sisters just in case they happened to be peaking out already. I was happy to see two sunken seeds with tap roots just barely splitting out of each. They were placed back atop the water heater for the time being. Next I prepped the smaller hempy pots with perlite along the bottoms, just covering the drainage/overflow holes. The rest was filled with my soil mix, which I semi-firmly compacted down before topping them off with the remaining soil mix. I originally planned to dampen the mix with a mist of distilled water as I stirred the ingredients together, but I forgot. So instead I decided to saturate the already-assembled pot contents with this water until the excess began to drain out the bottom. I tipped the pots a bit towards their holes to assist any other excess to come out. I hope this is alright for the time being. I read so many methods for grower's initial soil mix and really couldn't decide on a "best" so went with my newb gut. I wrapped a single layer of paper towel around each pot and placed them atop my recently turned off radiator for a little warmth and hopefully to pull out a little more moisture.

After those pots sit for a couple hours I'll introduce the sisters to their new home. Any bits I should do different next time?

I'm actually about to go out and quickly assemble the last bits of the grow chamber right now before it gets too chilly and dark out. Wheee!

 

[Muddy]

That sounds fine. Only thing I would have done differently was soak the soil the day before. But your mixture of Pro Mix with added perlite and vermiculite will drain well so no worries.

I would recommend 3 gallon pots. Make sure they are either square or the nursery type with indentations on the sides. Both types redirect the roots, making for a healthier root system. The roots won't swirl around the inside of the pots they way they do with smooth sided ones.

 

[Damascus]

Sounds good! I took your advice and am using 5" octagonal shaped ones for the smaller ones too. With moist soil do I need to worry about mold or mildew or algae on the surface with it exposed to light, or is there no need for a cover? I have those 5" root guard lids but they aren't quite a perfect fit for these current pots - I'll definitely use them though if that would help prevent this. Also I notice some put a layer of perlite on the surface to deter some top soil pests - should I start doing that from the start, if at all?

Lastly, Fox Farm's feeding schedule has Big Bloom being used right from seedling/cutting, even before the week 1 feedings begin. But I'm noticing many AFN'ers only go straight water up through at least the first week. Is this personal preference or have members noticed a negative impact on autos from starting this regime that early?

 

[Muddy]

No, I wouldn't cover the top of the soil with anything. The most common pest we see are fungus gnats, sometimes also called fruit flies. They lay their eggs in the top layer of soil, if it's continually damp. Covering the soil provides a better environment for them. Best to leave it open and have good air circulation within the grow area so the very top layer of soil can dry out. A 1/4" layer of sand will prevent them from laying their eggs but I wouldn't be concerned about that unless you run into a problem with them, which is not likely.

Pro Mix contains starter nutes which are usually enough for about the first 2-3 weeks of growing. I generally give them a 1/4 strength feeding around that time. I generally recommend veg nutes only till vertical growth stops, usually around week 5 or 6. Some who follow the schedule often start adding some Big Bloom to the mix after they sex. Just bear in mind that their schedule is based on growing photo sensitive plants, not autos. Autos tend to be more nutrient sensitive than photos so usually lower doses than what recommends.

If you haven't seen this thread yet, give it a read. It should give you a better idea of what to expect from your plants: https://www.autoflower.org/f44/life-cycle-auto-flowering-cannabis-5113.html

 

[Damascus]

Okies start of Day 9 and later today I'll be watering the 2 Think Different gals nuteless for their 3rd time. Named them Apple 1 (A1) and Apple 2 (A2) because I'm oh-so clever. A1 just zipped right up and is sitting tall at overt 4" above the soil. The second lady was unintentionally uprooted completely during the 2nd watering a few days ago and, as expected, took a tad delay before resuming her also zooming growth. She's slouching upwards now at just over 3". PH from the last watering came out at 6.2, which is down from the 6.5 that they started at from their first soil watering. The distilled water I'm using has been staying consistent at ~6.5 before it's added. Suspecting I might have to start dialing this water up a few tenths after today's water session. If this trend of PH-decline continues do I simply compensate my nuteless water in the mean time? Should I resist the temptation to begin super-mild nuting another week till the first leaves really begin to spread open for their photosynthesis?