Night Owl Seeds Question about F1 seeds

Humanrob

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Daz proudly states on a bunch of his seeds "True F1". My understanding is that an F1 is the result of the first cross between two strains. My first question is, from a standpoint of quality, stability, predictability, what is the difference between (the almost $17) Spotless Mind F1 (Cosmic Queen x Fugue State) and a *freebie* I got "Cosmic Queen x Mango Smile" -- beyond the obvious genetic differences? Aren't they both F1's? What makes a "True F1", true? What's a fake F1?

Hoping to learn something new...
:cheers:
 
interesting questions id like to see what people have to say :pop:
 
In my book an F1 is an F1, the rest is marketing. I would also like to understand why you would sell an F1, unless the genetics are so exceptional from both sides that you just want to get it out there regardless of what they produce.
 
In my book an F1 is an F1, the rest is marketing. I would also like to understand why you would sell an F1, unless the genetics are so exceptional from both sides that you just want to get it out there regardless of what they produce.
It always has been curious to me, since I've read people complaining for instance that Fast Buds new releases have extreme pheno variations, and saying that's because they are F1's. But I've also read about "F1 vigor", and that F2 production can have more pheno variation than F1. Sifting through all there is to read and getting to the bottom of it can be a challenge.
 
The way I understand it I separate f1s into two categories. One would be any cross of two hybrids/polyhybrids making the first filial cross. The true f1 is the ag industry definition of two ibl lines that aren't closely related crossed to make a new hybrid that has hybrid vigor. For example tomatoes are brought to f6 to f9 two separate lines then crossed to make a stable hybrid. The difference is one will show hybrid vigor(forget the actual term for it) and the other won't. Theres lots of breeders that just toss the latest cuts on each other. Those types don't impress me very often but there is some good stuff in them sometimes.
 
I'm with Ace on this in regards to the two types of F1s. Though, I am not sure how close to true F1s the Night Owl seeds are... Still, it does not stop me from picking them up.

I like the way is article explains this. It is talking about veggies, but I think the principles hold.
"An F1 variety is a plant variety created by crossing two distinct parents. The resulting F1 hybrid has certain characteristics of each parent. Typically the F1 designation is limited to vegetable varieties.

The advantage of F1 hybrid seed is that the plants grown from it are very predictable and uniform. They have been bred for specific characteristics, such as flavor, color, number of days to harvest, resistance to disease, etc. F1 hybrids also possess "hybrid vigor." Typically this means more plants survive the seedling stage and mature plants are large and healthy.

The disadvantage of F1 hybrids is that they while they may be strong in one aspect, they can be vulnerable in another. They are also usually sterile, meaning that they will not produce seed. You'll have to purchase seed every year if you want to keep growing that variety. Even if the variety is not sterile and does produce seed, the seed will be unstable—it won't necessarily produce plants with the same traits as the parent. F1 hybrids are more expensive than other varieties because of the additional costs associated with controlling pollination of the parent plants, and because they are sometimes trademarked/patented by the breeder, so the retailer must pay a royalty to sell the plant under the registered trademark name."

That being said, I don't know how True of an F1 you can get with autos without stabilizing each strain to IBL before crossing.

Thems my two pennies. :toke:
 
In my book an F1 is an F1, the rest is marketing. I would also like to understand why you would sell an F1, unless the genetics are so exceptional from both sides that you just want to get it out there regardless of what they produce.
you and me both. F1 seeds are fine as freebies to get them out there and see how they do, but marketing them as something extra special is bs in my opinion. The first generation of a cross will have a lot of phenotypic variation, maybe even some nuisance stuff that is unexpected from the parents involved. All sorts of recessive stuff can show up when mixing unrelated strains. For the high prices, I will stick with seeds labelled at higher generations than f1. For a breeder to claim being proud of f1's rather than having worked the bugs out with higher generations reduces my confidence in what else they might communicate about their product. F1 progress is fine to indicate what interesting crosses are being worked on, but as an indicator of a desirable finished strain, not so much IMO. :pighug:
 
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