Live Stoner Chat Special Relativity

We can take this too another level Grado and go for multiverses ...

To me, M-Theory (multiverses) harmonizes everything. For example, going back to my previous post about 2-dimensional "flatlanders," imagine if we poked our finger through their world and said "I am your God, and you shall have only one God." Later I poke 2 fingers into their world and say "It's still me, and there is only one God."

Suddenly, Mr. Flat is attending the church of the 1 finger, while Mrs. Flat goes to the church of 2 fingers. They relentlessly accuse the other of heretical beliefs. And then, just for fun, I poke my elbow into their world and say "my elbow and fingers are different, yet I am your one and only God." Suddenly there is a plethora of churches dedicated to explaining how there can be multiple and simultaneous existences of what appear to be many Gods, that are more definite, distinct and permanent than mere "manifestations" of one God -- yet they keep telling us they're the same God.

Religious wars break out. Inquisitions. Purges of heretical beliefs -- when everyone's basically describing the indescribable from their limited 2-dimensional perspective.

It could be the same for us. For example, in Christendom there has been a long-standing debate about whether we are "salvation" is predestined (completely no free will) or by works ("works" as an expression of free will). This debate orginated around 70 AD between the disciples Peter (proponent of works) and Paul (proponent of predestination). It's raged for 2000 years.

Multiverses explain that. For every choice you make, a copy of you exists in another universe where you didn't make that choice. At one level (the way reality was created) we can't avoid making the "right choice." And yet, at our individual level we experience very real free will. The sum of what is you made all the choices. But, each copy of you made a choice not to do something (perhaps wrong).

Recently I read a news article about scientists who had discovered "ripples" in space and time which originate from the big bang. They theorized that the initial "expansion" (first micro second) of the big bang exceeded the speed of light, creating distortions and bubbles in the universe which now remain as ripples in the "background" remnants of the big bang. That these bubbles are the other universes of the multiverse.

In other words, the multiverse shares the same big-bang origin. If you existed in one of those other universe, you'd see the same background remnants of the big bang, the same ripples/distortions. But, you wouldn't see this universe.

To me, that's mind-blowing. It seems to mean all the universes were created at the same time. Every universe to accomodate the choices you (and I) make were created at once.

That looks a lot like predestination. At the time of the big bang, every contingency was accounted for. Yet, at my individual existence -- I honestly made a choice to get out of bed, read this forum, and reply to your post. If someone tells me I didn't have the free will to do that, I'd say they are completely wrong. (But, a copy of me didn't get up. And that contingency was accommodated at the moment of the big bang.).

I think we're share a lot in common with the 2-dimensional flatlanders in terms of ignorance. At our level what I describe makes no sense. But, if we could put ourselves in the 4th dimension it would look so fundamental and easy to explain that we'd laugh at ourselves.

If the human race could ponder these things we might become more tolerant and humble.

(Finally, I want to say that my reference to God, Christianity and "creator" aren't meant to imply atheists, satanists, etc. are wrong. I was just using one belief system to illustrate what may be our extremely palsied understanding of something much larger.).
 
Time is the incremental change in the position of particles in a system. For us, we live in a large system. It's actually got a sun in it.

But a smaller system would be a pool table and a rack of balls all set up inside a triangle. At moment zero the balls are stationary. Then the cue ball starts moving. And it passes through every point on its' way towards breaking the set. How fast or how much time it takes traveling is relative to the observer. Once it hits and scatters the rest of the balls, eventually everything comes to rest. And again, every movement or lack thereof is relative to the observer.

Time travel in this case is extremely simple. To reverse time, you only have to apply the exact opposite force that permeated the system. You can watch the balls reset in front of you. But this leads to another eventuality; another different future for the balls.

i gotta be somewhere, but we'll talk later. Gotta jump in my terrestrial space ship and move across the planet.
 
When I went to Mass today, (Yes really) the Priest said "We did not choose God, He chose us/you/me" because He sees something special in each and every one of us. I liked that.
Whatever your thoughts on Life, The Universe (or multiverses) and everything, I wish you a happy holidays and as Dave Allen used to say, "May your God go with you"

Thanks for a stimulating debate, eP.
 
Time is the incremental change in the position of particles in a system.

That's a good explanation. We could take it further and say time's most fundamental unit is the "plank frame"[1]. Every frame allows us to measure the change in particle positions.

But, that's just a measurement. Like measuring the size of an atom. We still can't physically identify time. We can't hold it in our hand or change its state like an atom.

To me, the ill-defined nature of time is like how electrons of an atom are everywhere at once (and sometimes nowhere). We can observe it, but we can't explain its nature, origin, where it goes after it elapses.

The 4th dimension explains it. Plank frames exist as a long spool. Does that mean the 4th dimension "leaks" into the 3rd in the same way we could "leak" the 3rd dimension into the 2nd-dimensional inhabitant's world by bending their world into a tube? They would still see only an x/y plane, but experience an infinite tube which they could describe in terms of what they experience ("we keep walking and wind up at the same place") -- but unable to explain its nature or origin.

This reminds me of gravity. There are scientists today who theorize the gravity we experience in our universe "leaks" from another universe into ours. That it's too weak of a force to originate from ours.[2] Kind of like how we can explain our experience with time, we can explain how gravity holds our feet to the ground -- and yet with a small magnet we can overcome the entire planet's force upon a paperclip. It seems like (from that video clip anyway) that the essence/origin of gravity can't be explained.


[1] The time it takes light to travel a "plank length" (infinitesimally small distance) in a vacuum.

[2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-mLF23JzKA
A really good 5-part documentary about M-Theory.
 
I remember reading about that.... since gravity is so many orders of magnitude weaker than the other fundamental forces (electroweak, and the strong nuclear force) one explanation is that it's the same force throughout every slice in the loaf. That is, every universe in the multiverse shares the same force of gravity. And since it expresses itself over each universe, you're only experiencing a fraction of it's true power.

Makes sense to me. Sort of... Anywho - I'm back... forgot what else I was gunna say.
 
I gotta goread some of the posts.very cool idea man!

If you want to learn about the multiverse theory (M-Theory), this video is really good:

1. Parallel Worlds, Parallel Lives

[video=youtube;QaD2Jw1TEQU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QaD2Jw1TEQU[/video]

It's about Mark Everett, the leader of the alt-rock band, The Eels. His father was Hugh Everett who is credited with today's increasingly mainstream theory of parallel universes. Hugh was laughed out of academia and worked for the government for 2 decades. It wasn't until the '70s that academia began to give credit to his theory. He was invited to speak at universities and enjoy some fame just months before passing away.

Mark goes on a journey to understand his father's breakthrough, and acquire some healing from what was a strained/distant relationship within a family plagued with being "special" (his mother and sister committed suicide, and his closest moment with his father was when Mark discovered him dead in bed from an apparent heart attack).

It's amazing how Hugh was rejected by his peers and today he's ranked with Einstein and Newton. This is an exceptionally easy-to-understand and historical documentary of the topic. Also a bit fun because Mark isn't the least bit scientifically inclined.

Be aware that the sound drops out around the 15-minute mark. It's not an important part (as he travels to a new place to learn more).

Here is a second video. I couldn't post it in the previous post because this site allows only 1 embedded video.

2. Parallel Universes

This 5-part is good too. If you're high, the part where the dude says "M-Theory" about a dozen times is hysterical.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7SDrj4Tjvk

(I can't post it as an embedded video. The site limits me to 1.).

This is less about Everett and more about modern physicists who are coming to embrace Everett's theories as a scientific truth. It contradicts the recent news story I mentioned (they talk about universes colliding to create new universes. Recent news says they were created at the moment of the big bang).
 
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Now you guys got me thinking. az, you wrote a lot about choice and dimensions. That's cool. I have a thought that involves both.

So I think about life a lot... cause why not. Anyway, I'm going to define as many dimensions as I can. First, second and third, we have up and down, left and right, and forward and backward. Mathematicians often abbreviate this as x, y, and z. Any physical object can be described within these three dimensions. I'm going to call them spacial dimensions.

The fourth dimension is time. But time isn't a spacial dimension. You can feel an object because it takes up space, like you and you have a sense of touch. But feeling a moment is something we create in our minds. It's hard to explain. Scientifically we measure time using the decay of radioactive material, which we know occurs at a stable rate.

I've read about 6 or seven other dimensions, but their purpose isn't really clear. Their function in our universe is also undefined and their existence is only theoretical. Nevertheless, I have something that begs for an explanation. The spark of life inside me. And yet all I am is water... and carbon... and clothes and stuff. So obviously something's going on. And we know so much... but that's only led to more questions which is fine... but you know... I still like to have my mind blown every once in a while. Keeps me fresh.

- - - Updated - - -

So I was looking at the dimensions from a creative stand point. The first allows a point to be described on a line. As a life, I wouldn't be very active. I could only do one thing.... increase or decrease in value.

With the second and third dimension, matter could finally exist as we know it, but in order to become something, change is required.

Which required the use of a temporal dimension. Like I said, time is the difference between moments, or states in a system. So there had to be a fourth.

The rest is simply what makes our universe different. Here matter can make choices based on psychological things like a hierarchy of needs, or personal goals. Here, matter can take the form of humans. So in my mind, the remaining dimensions allow for certain decisions to be made by otherwise inert particles.

When's the last time you saw 150 pounds of water plant some Highrise seeds and enter a contest on an autoflower forum? Only on earth, bitches. [and the other universes too... ; ]
 
The fourth dimension is time. But time isn't a spacial dimension.

I agree time isn't spatial in our 3rd dimension. But, if time leaks into our dimension from the 4th dimension, perhaps we can't comprehend how time can be spatial within the dimension it exists? (The same way "flatlanders" can't comprehend the full glory of "up and down" from the flatlanders' 2nd dimension -- while experiencing a taste of it in the form of a plane curved into a cylinder?)

If the past and present exist in the 4th dimension, it must mean time has permanence. That you could pull any frame (from any reel) and view it. I've read one theorist Or, perhaps from the 5th dimension looking into the 4th, it would look like a panorama of frames, from birth to death, seen all at once.

But feeling a moment is something we create in our minds. ... Nevertheless, I have something that begs for an explanation. The spark of life inside me. And yet all I am is water... and carbon... and clothes and stuff. So obviously something's going on.

I think that's the exciting part. Not just the science of 10 dimensions, or multiple universes. But, that at a spiritual level we may exist in many places at once. That our dreams (and feelings of deja vu, etc.) may be our distributed nature connecting itself.

As mentioned before, electrons which orbit an atom's nucleus are in many places at once (and sometimes not present at all). Could they be part of a fundamental element, shared across the multiverse? Could our "soul" (essence, unique personality, etc.) be such an energy which is flitting between an infinite number of universes where we exist (for every quantum/choice event in our lives)? Are we really discrete beings in this universe, or is there some essence or energy that exists at a much higher dimension and is shared across all the universes we exist in?

Getting back to the 4th dimension as a container of all time, is that what people experience when they "pass away" and report that they saw their life flash before their eyes? Is the common near-death experience of traveling through a tunnel, and being greeted by a white light, actually traveling to the 5th dimension from which the 4th dimension can be viewed as a long reel of film? In one view we see all the events of our lives as a panorama?

Note: Some people dismiss near-death experiences as being suggestive. (During a person's live they hear how it's supposed to be. When they pass away, the final moments of their brain's energy acts upon that suggestion.). But, I know someone who had a near-death experience 40 years ago, as a child, before hearing any paranormal stories of near-death experiences. He says he experienced exactly what is often described as a near-death experience (floating, tunnel, life flashing before his eyes).

In other words, maybe all this science stuff starts to explain spiritual beliefs. (Or, vice-versa: maybe spiritual beliefs are attempts to explain a physical reality far beyond our own.).

You might like to watch this series of videos which describes the 2nd to 10th dimensions. It starts here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4s1-UR3D21s

I don't agree with everything that guy says. But, I think he does a good job explaining what (at higher dimensions) is difficult to explain. What's interesting to me is how, after the 4th dimension it becomes a repeating pattern of the same characteristic of the prior 3 dimensions (encapsulating the prior dimensions, giving them more power?). I'd like to hear your thoughts on that after you watch those videos.

(After watching the 2nd dimension you should see the option to watch the 3rd, and so on.).
 
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