Lighting Supplemental Lighting: Mars Hydro ADLITE series and Other Manufacturers

[WildBill]

I thought I would start a thread for Discussion and Documentation of using supplemental lighting.

All manufacturers are included and your input would be appreciated.

My input will be from my HLG UVA supplemental light and Mars Hydro ADLITE series.

I now have two grows under my belt with using the HLG UVA light bar. It is a very powerful light that has a definite effect on the plant .
The first two grows were definitely too much of the light. There was a definite improvement in Trichome production, I think in quality and quantity, but I do think that the plant suffered a bit too much damage in its leaf structure. In the first run where there is just way too much UVA, most of the girls got very very dark purple with Vidamints being practically black in her purpleness. in the following run she was much, much less dark purple.

I think I have the usage down to what I'm going to do in the next Grow. Auto's or photos will be treated the same and UV not started until the third week. It's still on the blue end of the spectrum so it will tend to keep the girl shorter. I think all I'm gonna do once started is 15 minutes a day in mid cycle. The first week of flower It will be increased to 30 minutes mid cycle. And the following week it will be increased to one hour mid cycle and remain there until later in flower. Once reaching mid flower, it will go to two hours mid cycle until chop.
I think that will give the results I'm looking for with minimal plant damage. Naturally, with minimal damage, production should Increase slightly.


For the time being, the Deep Red will be the only Mars supplemental lighting I will be doing. I'm doing that in the 2x4 TENT because I think the Mars Hydro SP 3000 is a little blue heavy in the spectrum. I think my girls tend to be a little shorter in that tent.

Since I mainly grow Indica in that tent, I'm not going to have to worry about some crazy sativa going nuts with some crazy spacing.
And I think for this first run I will just run the Deep Red on the same cycle as the main light. If I see way too much stretching or too large of node spacing I can always back it off or turn it off. now I did get the larger size thinking that one day I will utilize it in my 4x4 tent. That may mean I have to run it at less than full light cycle.

I do think that the infrared bar could be useful And I really think it would be most useful and growing photos with the shorter flowering lighting Schedule. the theory is that you use the infrared 30 minutes before the other light comes on and it helps wake up the plant sooner. And with 30 minutes after the lights go out, it tells the plant to go to sleep.

It only makes sense that if this is true, it will make the plant more productive. The sooner it gets in gear and wakes up, the more photosynthesis occurs. The sooner it gets to sleep, the more all the root system can do its work with the microbes and hormones during the rest period.

Doc Bugsby Says their studies reveal this, so it must be true. How much improvement it makes, is up for question.

But what are we here for? If you're considering Supplemental lighting, you're going to that next level In growing your cannabis!

Justin's video popped up in my feed yesterday and I thought it'd be useful to see what kind of light figures you would get from using all of this. I'm gonna run my own PAR tests once everything is installed and running.





Feel free to post up your experiences! Maybe we can have one place for info on supplemental lighting, I guess until the lighting manufacturers make extremely expensive but completely tunable light fixtures.

I think a lot of the results here are going to be fairly subjective, but I think a good grower that has grown that particular girl before could probably tell fairly easy what has changed whether it's good or bad. I think it will be something interesting and I've already seen positive results from using the UV. Like anything there's a learning curve And there is always room for refinement and improvement. Hey that's why we're here!

 

[FarmerJake]

I guess until the lighting manufacturers make extremely expensive but completely tunable light fixtures.

VIVOSUN AeroLight LED Grow Light with Integrated Air Circulation Fan | Smart Grow System

The AeroLight is the first of its kind: The first ever LED grow light system with a fully integrated circulation fan, the first full spectrum LED system that can be adjusted remotely from anywhere in the world, the first all-in-one lighting and airflow solution for your grow space.

vivosun.com

This is my favorite light I own and it has a tunable spectrum(albeit not fully customizable tuned like a high end reef tank light). It has diodes that share similar spectrums of the add on lights mars sells. Highly recommend the vivosun if anyone is shopping for lights
Vivosun Aerolight a100 spectrum

Mars light add on spectrums

I feel like vivosun has a refined product and the add on bars are a shot in the dark with user input via timers a necessity

 

[WildBill]

VIVOSUN AeroLight LED Grow Light with Integrated Air Circulation Fan | Smart Grow System

The AeroLight is the first of its kind: The first ever LED grow light system with a fully integrated circulation fan, the first full spectrum LED system that can be adjusted remotely from anywhere in the world, the first all-in-one lighting and airflow solution for your grow space.

vivosun.com

This is my favorite light I own and it has a tunable spectrum(albeit not fully customizable tuned like a high end reef tank light). It has diodes that share similar spectrums of the add on lights mars sells. Highly recommend the vivosun if anyone is shopping for lights
Vivosun Aerolight a100 spectrum
View attachment 1671677
Mars light add on spectrums
View attachment 1671678
I feel like vivosun has a refined product and the add on bars are a shot in the dark with user input via timers a necessity

I do see more and more lights with the different light frequencies. I do know that it complicates the light quite a bit. When done properly, it has to increase the cost. I've talked to a couple of light companies and that's what I'm hearing.

In my mind, a light with the multi spectrum diodes, has to meet certain standards.

Longevity!
No short lived diodes!

Efficiency!
The conversion of electricity to photons must be efficient without undue heat production. kind of goes hand to hand with longevity.

Effective!
The diodes must be in sufficient numbers to provide the wanted effect.
In the same train of thought, it must be cost-effective also.

I do think some light manufacturers out there that are adding these different wavelength diodes just to jump on the bandwagon.

But I do think that in the future we will have lights with all the different spectrums and they will be designed around research and testing to actually prove they actually do what they say. It's just like moving away from the burple lights.

I think supplemental lighting is kind of a stop gap measure until this technology is used as commonplace in lights. I think it's gonna be around for quite a while with all the current technology lights already out there. And you really have to admit that the light fixtures and their spectrums that we're currently using is quite good ! It does grow quite nice cannabis, but like anything with our grows we're always refining and taking things to the next level.
And that's really what this thread is about. How do we utilize this technology to improve our medicine?

Even with the lights with this technology already on them, you're still gonna have to know how to utilize that technology properly.

Hopefully, if we can get the people participating, we can compare notes on same or similar strains and maybe getting some generalized guidelines on utilization.

I plan to reveal what I will be doing in the grow here and documenting everything in my main thread and then show the results here and any conclusions drawn.

 

[WildBill]

@Bob's Auto's Brought up another Type of light that I have that needs to be addressed here. I thought this was some good information that should be here.

I feel you need more then that tiny slice of a spectrum leds can produce. Remember, UVR has a range somewhere from 100-400nm. The range led's can produce sits between 365-370nm, excluding some high end leds and these have the disadvantage of a very short lifespan.
You're better of buying one or two (depending on the size of your tent) of those reptile terrarium lights. It's old tech, but these produce a spectrum more in the neighborhood of what you find in let's say a greenhouse.

I have two of those, but never have really utilized them................ At least not consistently. With the wide range that they produce, I think you need to be a little bit more cautious with the use than the available leds. That was the biggest thing that deterred me from using them.

I need to figure out a schedule for this particular style of light. I don't think I will be doing it with this upcoming grow, just to keep variables down for this first test run with the deep red in my 2X4 tent. I have UV covered and need to further refine that particular unit use in the 4x4 tent.
On this upcoming run, my new Gorilla 3x3 tent will be a clone and mom tent and probably seed production. That tent will get my two small lights, the Mars Hydro TS 1000 and the HLG 200 Rspec................ Although they will not be used together on this first run in the tent. Due to the spectrum of the Mars with a little less red, I'll be using that one as the mom light.
I think the combination of the two main lights should be interesting and they should complement each other quite well . I think I should be able to fit the fluorescent style uv light fixture in between the two lights, whenever I make that a flower production tent. That may only occur whenever my next auto run comes up. It kind of just depends on what photos I grow out in the run after the next one. I plan to use the Gorilla 3x3 tent Two lake seeds of Asian Haze Fem and Crockett's Tangie Reg.

 

[Bob's Auto's]

With the wide range that they produce, I think you need to be a little bit more cautious with the use than the available leds. That was the biggest thing that deterred me from using them.

You are quite correct. I use these light four times a day, for one hour each time when I grow auto's on 24/7 lights on. The light forces the plants in producing bulbous trichomes instead of the capitate stalked trichomes. For that same reason it is NOT advised to open the tent during those periods as the radiation from the UVB can be harmful. Actually it's the same frequency as your subjected to when going under a tanning bed, but still long term exposure to those things gives you cancer, that's why the tanning salons are all banned these days.

 

[WildBill]

You are quite correct. I use these light four times a day, for one hour each time when I grow auto's on 24/7 lights on. The light forces the plants in producing bulbous trichomes instead of the capitate stalked trichomes. For that same reason it is NOT advised to open the tent during those periods as the radiation from the UVB can be harmful. Actually it's the same frequency as your subjected to when going under a tanning bed, but still long term exposure to those things gives you cancer, that's why the tanning salons are all banned these days.

With it making bulbous heads, that probably will affect the outcome of a ice water hash run.
They would be interesting to see the difference from clones grown in tents side by side in the same lung room.


edit...................... That would explain the results of my last few dry ice hash runs With very limited results in my finest bowl.

 

[Bob's Auto's]

Oh, you should also check out plasma lights. These put out the entire spectrum like the sun does.
It's high end material and probably not for the wallets of mainstream growers, but they still outperform HID and LED alike.7
I saw an exhibition of it at the WUR in the early 2000's. Just spectacular results compared to HID as led was still in it's infancy.

 

[WildBill]

Purple line → red line. Pink line → black line.

That was easy!
The Mars hydro SP3000 is now controlled with my AC Infinity 69 smart controller with the resistance based adapter. It works outstanding!
Also in the tent is the deep red supplemental light bars! It is also controlled by the AC Infinity Smart controller through a smart outlet. I do think I probably should have got the smaller 1 for the 2 by 4 tent.

I installed them all the way at the top of the tent. I think I'm just going to run them that way this first run and then play with them later maybe in the 4x4
.
There's lots of red and it's very bright! When the main light is turned on, it pretty much washes out the red.
I'm going to give the girls a bit of time to get their root system established and then turn them on the same cycle as the main .

I've selected mainly in the Indica dominant girls to go in this tent to see if I can get them to stretch just a bit and maybe for a bit more open colas With just slightly longer node spacing.
It should be an interesting experiment.

This light setup does produce quite a bit of light! It's the 55 Watt version and I was pretty surprised about how much light actually made it to the very bottom with my light meter. I left it on for a while to see how warm it got and it was very reasonable. I don't really think it's going to be that much of a heat impact, especially with the SP 3000 driver on the outside of the tent.
Yeah it's a bit bulky and awkward, but I think that's good because it can be adapted to a lot of applications. Now the integration with one of their bar units that is designed to take this, it's a done deal and very simple. Hanging otherwise is a little bit awkward. You do have to account for the weight of the connections between the lights, so they don't twist the direction of the light.. Is fairly easily done when installed and the very top of the tent. I don't see it easily moved and maintain correct alignment. But since this is supplemental lighting I'm good with not moving that portion of the light for the entire grow. I'm pretty sure it will definitely have an impact on the grow in actually probably pretty beneficial in the end. When young, it's not going to have a super large effect on the seedling, causing it to overstretch. And as the plant grows it will grow into the light hopefully at the appropriate time when needed. I think this is probably about the most easily duplicated way of running a test.
Once this first run is done, now I can come back with clones and run subsequent tests with and without supplemental deep red.
On this first run with the supplemental light. I will have one girl in there that I have grown before. I will have something to gage it by.

I want to also try something a little different in this tent on this run when flipping to flower. What I want to change is the procedure most people do of just one day flipping from 18/6 to 12/12. What I want to do is to maintain the same DLI from veg into flower. This means as I pull back in daylight time, I increase the ppfd to maintain the same DLI each change in time of running. It's more of a natural transition than one day you're running 18 hours of light and then the next day you're only getting 12 hours of light.
I think my best bet for this first run is to veg for roughly 30 days and then begin this transition. By this time they should be hitting a fairly decent DLI and relatively decent intensity. They should be well established enough to take the increase in intensity without adverse reactions. I just have to sit down and actually calculate the figures and to set the schedule of increasing the lights. At that particular time, their root structure should be well established in the Earth box junior for roughly two weeks of full res fills. The girls should be able to handle the increase in light intensity with no problems. I think 7 to 10 days should be in easy transition. I think it made me best to do a defol just before the changes. Would be a good time to make some clones.

I do think that since I am going to be augmenting with CO2, I think the girls will be able to take the transition much easier. I'm not supplementing for Max results, just a bit supplemental. I think I'm going to shoot for right at 1000.

Here's my new 20lb CO2 bottle I got in. The 20 pound bottles are more readily available in my area I realized that you just couldn't have just one bottle Especially when it's not assured you'll get it immediately or in a few days. I just couldn't take the chance and why do so?

 

[BII]

Here's my new 20lb CO2 bottle I got in. The 20 pound bottles are more readily available in my area I realized that you just couldn't have just one bottle Especially when it's not assured you'll get it immediately or in a few days. I just couldn't take the chance and why do so?
View attachment 1679812

What is your and the situation in general in terms of purchasing CO2 gas? Do you own the tanks and get them refilled, or as propane is commonly sold in much of the US, do you trade in empty '20 lb' tanks for full tanks? What's the cost? What grade gas are you purchasing; is it higher purity than really needed as a tent air supplement?

Might generating CO2 onsite, such as having a large vat with sugars/carbs undergoing fermentation venting into the tent, be more cost effective?

Buying dry ice seems likely easier and a cheeper source of rather pure CO2 vs. buying gas. Might it be feasible and cheaper to buy blocks of dry ice and put them in a well insulated container such that CO2 is vented into the tent at a desired rate?

 

[WildBill]

What is your and the situation in general in terms of purchasing CO2 gas? Do you own the tanks and get them refilled, or as propane is commonly sold in much of the US, do you trade in empty '20 lb' tanks for full tanks? What's the cost? What grade gas are you purchasing; is it higher purity than really needed as a tent air supplement?

Might generating CO2 onsite, such as having a large vat with sugars/carbs undergoing fermentation venting into the tent, be more cost effective?

Buying dry ice seems likely easier and a cheeper source of rather pure CO2 vs. buying gas. Might it be feasible and cheaper to buy blocks of dry ice and put them in a well insulated container such that CO2 is vented into the tent at a desired rate?

Regrettably they do not Refill tanks at the place they only exchange anywhere around this area. I wish I hadn't sold my old tank that I had when racing. I had a big mother CO2 bottle............... just like I had big old mother nitrous bottles! The CO2 was used in race cars for various activations like shifting and turbo boost control. It also can be used in nitrous. I did some early testing back in 2005 on some nitrous pusher systems that were pushed by CO2. It would not let the nitrous pressure drop below whatever set pressure you had Adjusted, usually 900 to 1200 for a hot shot.

For a 20 pound refill it will be approximately 30 to 35 dollars. I expect that to last a fairly significant time. I will start off with the 10 pound first to give me a good idea of how long the 20 will last.

Bottled gas will definitely be a lot less expensive than dry ice by a huge margin.
I had dry ice 3.5 miles away from my house! But I only use that for dry ice shake for live rosin. There's just no way to make it last long enough or even to regulate it. Now I do let my worked material and my leftover dry ice sit in the lung room and let the girls utilize dry ice in that fashion.



Really the only other viable method will be when I get a growroom built in my shop. It will be sealed up and I will fully control the environment. I like the best way of augmenting in that fashion would be with a burner. It doesn't take much! Not really much over a pilot light, really.
I'll just have to take this last round of automation and take it to a little bit further notch when I build that grow room. Actually it's gonna be quite a bit more. I do think that most of the stuff I currently have with AC Infinity will move over and make the transition quite well. I think it will work well enough for long enough for me to get a bit more of a professional style setup. I want a minimum of Four 5x5 grow areas
I wanna try to fit in at least one and probably two of my stainless steel tables and then one of my stainless steel racks But I might also throw in a couple of the racks and run a couple of stacked grows.

commerce overI'll document everything here so you'll know how much I'll use and the cost. Make a decision whether you want to run it at the end of this Run. I'm gonna base the CO2 by what is in the grow room. I always run a minimal exhaust fan to always have fresh air coming into the tent. Inlet to all my chants are on the bottom, except for the 2X4 Mars Hydro tent I have renting hose that loops on each top outlet on the sides in that tent/ It takes air from pretty close to the bottom of the tent on the outside and delivers it to the bottom of the tent on the inside. I tend to get the best and most even air flow with this setup. With the CO2 being denser and falling down to the bottom it should aid even more. I will be releasing the CO2 over my ceiling fan in the grow room, which is always on with a grow going to keep the air in the lung rooms stirred up. sing a song something was paying money for.

This will be just over the 2 by 4 tent and my other main thread is in my signature for update on all the tents. You will definitely know all the different parameters and procedures and how much it ran.