New Grower Autoflowering @ F1 on photo/auto cross

[Nelson]

Hey Cres I am breeding Trainwreck here it is one of the 10 strongest pots in my book. I still have people anxious for the seeds around here and I want to make an auto out of it for myself and others. I don't know about going forward thinking everything else will take care of itself. It just sounds like no planning to me and I am not that type. Who knows you may be right it is just not my way.

Nelson, breed for potency... the rest will happen on its own. If you dont you may end up with a highless strain...

 

[cres]

If you cross an auto with trainwreck and then continue breeding you will end up with an auto strain by F5 or F6 unless you breed out the auto trait...understand? But if you dont breed for potency then your trainwerck may or not be nearly as potent come F6...

It is planning... if you dont breed for potency then its a crap shoot by F6...

 

[Zygote]

There are really three main things that I want and could you address all three with your replie.

I want the photo X auto cross to auto reliably ie. better than 90%

I want the cross to have most of the traits of the photo and not the auto where possible. Especially in regard to flavor, smell and stone.

I want the new auto cross to exhibit very few phenos and be stable.

I am assuming that the photo is the male.

Would I better off in F2 to: a.) Breed it back to the male pollen of the original breeding.
b.) Breed together the off-spring male and female that autoed from F1
c.) Breed it back to the female type of the original breeding with a male that autoed from the F1 breeding
d.) Breed it back to a different auto with a male that autoed from the F1 breeding.

You are off to a good start; your goal is well defined.

I would suggest
For the first outcross, use a “Male Photo”
Breed them out to it lest a “F3” before you make the first backcross, Bx1
(Note: I go to a F4 or F5)

For the First Backcross use a “Female Photo”

(This Bx1 cross now has both the Male “X” chromosome and the “Y” Female chromosome from the Photo strain. It does not have the sex chromosome from the Auto)

 

[mattinuk3]

There are really three main things that I want and could you address all three with your replie.

I want the photo X auto cross to auto reliably ie. better than 90%

I want the cross to have most of the traits of the photo and not the auto where possible. Especially in regard to flavor, smell and stone.

I want the new auto cross to exhibit very few phenos and be stable.

I am assuming that the photo is the male.

Would I better off in F2 to: a.) Breed it back to the male pollen of the original breeding.
b.) Breed together the off-spring male and female that autoed from F1
c.) Breed it back to the female type of the original breeding with a male that autoed from the F1 breeding
d.) Breed it back to a different auto with a male that autoed from the F1 breeding.

Nelson, any plant that fully flowers under 24 hour light will have the recessive gene set needed for breeding. If you're lucky and cross to short night indicas like wiz, you may see some autos in the f1. If so, those are good enough for back crossing to the photo you are trying to recreate in auto form.

However, you'll probably have to go all the way to the f2 with the train wreck unless it has some rudy way back in there somewhere. Now, at this point you can select for a few generations more to lock down the trainwreck types, or you can back cross a fully auto male from the f2 to your trainwreck clone and start breeding a 75% trainwreck auto.

some people do this backcrossing yet again and call it cubing, however you can nail down the essential trainwreck traits with your second back cross just by inbreeding.

 

[mattinuk3]

Oh, didn't see that Zygote got to a reply already.

Nice to have Zygote around - he seems to be a pretty intelligent guy.

 

[Bushdocter]

I love to try and watch and learn this, where I fall behind is keeping proper notes and journals and labels. How do you guys keep track of your work, are there any programs or spreadsheets that are easy to use?

 

[Zygote]

I try to take good notes and photos
I Label everything.
My seed lists are on spreadsheets.

I do have a program but, I have not tested it out.

 

[mr.mcgregor]

in the summer I crossed a non auto male f2 from a photo to auto line, with a non auto f2 from another photo to auto line. ofsping so far has been 50% auto, and to be honest it looks like its going to be 90% auto, I should know over the next few days final auto %

 

[mattinuk3]

Another thing to consider while breeding is that, in small populations, genetic drift is just as strong a factor as selection. You may lock down certain traits through selection, but through random chance the line will change as well because we are just selecting a few individuals to carry on the whole next generation.


This is why its good idea to make several initial crosses. Maybe have 3 separate trainwreck females and three separate autoflower males and do a complete open pollination. That way, if at f5 or f6 you see the line going to shit because of accumulation of bad recessive traits, you can back cross to your extremely heterozygous f1 to restore vigor.

Or, give some of the f1 to a trusted breeder to simultaneously select for the same traits that you are. You may both lock down trainwreck flavor and buzz, but have vastly different plants at f5 or f6. Then, when you both have the mutual desired traits stabilized, you can cross the diverse lines and regain some heterozygosity (which translates to vigor).

 

[mr.mcgregor]

Am I right in thinking that using hybrids or poly hybrids as your non auto, and crossing that to your auto (which is also a poly hybrid) makes mendels laws irrelivant. my understanding is that the 2 parent plants need to be stable, hybrids and polys wont breed true so your results could be anything.