Ca deficiency?

[Jovinn]

Hi everybody, brand new on AFN and to auto flowers in general. Lots of experience with photos. Setup as follows:
9 Gelato, 1 Banana (ilgm seeds), germinated January 20th (so 4th week).
Rdwc using 5 gallon buckets, 7" net pots with hydroton. Seedlings started in 3" pots in coco, went into dwc after 1 week. Starting soln ~250 ppm 5.9 ph, GH Flora 3 part. Got straight water first week.
Just added Hydro guard today, light proofed 3 days ago.
70-75°F, 60-70 Rh. Lights on 22 hrs, 2 Green Sunshine ES 300s, 4 ft away dimmed to 3.
Have 3 sets of leaves and branches, stems great, roots finally taking off.
Generally looking good.
Wondering what's up with these spots on my leaves. Best I can tell its a Ca deficiency, which is certainly possible as when I buffered the coco, I didn't shake the calmag, and so ended up buffering with a 100 ppm soln which probably didn't do shit. sprayed with cal mag a few times, didn't seem to help much.

I definitely light stressed the hell out of them initially. First time using leds, and they warned me, but of course I didn't listen.
Stupidly didn't light proof for 2 weeks, or add h2o2 or anything to prevent root rot, but luckily only minor as the roots just reached the water this week. Also was using 4" Air stone discs , which fucking sucked, switched to regular airstones, Much better air flow. (Using 1\4 hp econoline air pump)Probably should have top watered more. The Hydro guard should help, roots generally healthy.

Pretty sure I screwed myself a little, im going to have to get better at coddling seedlings.
Anyway, glad to meet everybody and any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

I'm having trouble uploading pics, next post...

 

[Jovinn]

Hi everybody, brand new on AFN and to auto flowers in general. Lots of experience with photos. Setup as follows:
9 Gelato, 1 Banana (ilgm seeds), germinated January 20th (so 4th week).
Rdwc using 5 gallon buckets, 7" net pots with hydroton. Seedlings started in 3" pots in coco, went into dwc after 1 week. Starting soln ~250 ppm 5.9 ph, GH Flora 3 part. Got straight water first week.
Just added Hydro guard today, light proofed 3 days ago.
70-75°F, 60-70 Rh. Lights on 22 hrs, 2 Green Sunshine ES 300s, 4 ft away dimmed to 3.
Have 3 sets of leaves and branches, stems great, roots finally taking off.
Generally looking good.
Wondering what's up with these spots on my leaves. Best I can tell its a Ca deficiency, which is certainly possible as when I buffered the coco, I didn't shake the calmag, and so ended up buffering with a 100 ppm soln which probably didn't do shit. sprayed with cal mag a few times, didn't seem to help much.

I definitely light stressed the hell out of them initially. First time using leds, and they warned me, but of course I didn't listen.
Stupidly didn't light proof for 2 weeks, or add h2o2 or anything to prevent root rot, but luckily only minor as the roots just reached the water this week. Also was using 4" Air stone discs , which fucking sucked, switched to regular airstones, Much better air flow. (Using 1\4 hp econoline air pump)Probably should have top watered more. The Hydro guard should help, roots generally healthy.

Pretty sure I screwed myself a little, im going to have to get better at coddling seedlings.
Anyway, glad to meet everybody and any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

I'm having trouble uploading pics, next post...

Here’s some pictures

 

[Jovinn]

Oh yeah, added CaliMagic 2ml/gal to current nutes, changed 5 days ago. Spots only affecting older leaves. Would love not to have to waste ec on calmag, next time ill just use straight perlite. Lastly, I've been hearing that leds cause plants to use more Ca, anyone know if there's any truth to this, and any possible reason? Thanks again

 

[Mañ'O'Green]

@Jovinn Welcome to AFNI am a hydro guy and you are off to a better start then most new hydro growers.

Coco is inert and is hungry for Ca, Mg and iron. It is not an ideal substrate for starting plants. I have used Root Riots and rock wool with good success. You should feed from day one.

Are these plants Autos?

You appear to be out of balance with your nutrients. The first bit of information I need is the source and PPM of your starting water.

Tutorial - A word on Nutrients

The proper use of “salt” based fertilizer to grow Auto Flowering Cannabis. Salts: Natural and man made any chemical compound formed from the reaction of an acid with a base, with all or part of the hydrogen of the acid replaced by a metal or other cation. Learning how to use salt based...

www.autoflower.org

I have used this schedule with success in DWC. The strength needs to be dialed down 650 PPM is tops but the balance of the products remains the same.

 

[Jovinn]

@Jovinn Welcome to AFNI am a hydro guy and you are off to a better start then most new hydro growers.

Coco is inert and is hungry for Ca, Mg and iron. It is not an ideal substrate for starting plants. I have used Root Riots and rock wool with good success. You should feed from day one.

Are these plants Autos?

You appear to be out of balance with your nutrients. The first bit of information I need is the source and PPM of your starting water.

Tutorial - A word on Nutrients

The proper use of “salt” based fertilizer to grow Auto Flowering Cannabis. Salts: Natural and man made any chemical compound formed from the reaction of an acid with a base, with all or part of the hydrogen of the acid replaced by a metal or other cation. Learning how to use salt based...

www.autoflower.org

I have used this schedule with success in DWC. The strength needs to be dialed down 650 PPM is tops but the balance of the products remains the same.


View attachment 1418167

Thanks,
Yes, they are autos.
My tap water is ~160 ppm pH 7.3
I was following the "light feed" chart from gh, hadn't seen this one. I would normally feed much more and earlier, but everything I've read on this board warns about autos not needing strong nutes. My tds is 700, but at least 200 is being bogarted by the CaMag. I know osmotic pressure couldn't care less what the solute is, but they aren't showing any signs of overfertilization, and will aim to increase by 100 a week until at least 900, hopefully without the CaMg.
Yeah, starting them in coco wasn't ideal, though I've used it before without issues. Once I realized it wasn't buffered, it was too late to fix. Didn't want to use rock wool as it holds too much water to sit in a Dec bucket. Next time perlite, or just straight into hydroton.
I actually have grown on and off for 20 years, this is just my first go with autos and leds. And I wasn't clever enough to connect my buckets so I did 15 separate buckets, filling, dumping, adjusting them all by hand. Like an idiot. Recirculation seems so obvious in retrospect. Way, way less work.
I really am just wondering about the brown spots. I've never had Ca problems, but I also never light stressed a plant before. One has clear chlorosis from light toxicity. Overall they're doing ok, would be great if there wasn't only 4-6 weeks of life left for them to flower in. Advertised 8 weeks, but I'm taking that with a handful of salt and looking at 10. But I guess we'll see.

 

[Mañ'O'Green]

@Jovinn You are using too much calcium. Your starting water is about 70 PPM calcium The calimagic is about 125 PPM calcium then there is calcium in the base nutrients.

The numbers in brackets are maximums for cannabis.

did you read my tutorial on nutrients?

Then You need 400 PPM when plants are seedling to week 1 then up to 650 PPM in rDWC. The thing is you want to keep a balance in your nutrients.

 

[Jovinn]

Yeah, I only added the calcium because I thought the spotting was being caused by the unbuffered coco. Other than the Ca, I'm following the gh light feed schedule, which put me around 500. Next change ill ditch the calmag and up to 700 just flora 3 part. My plants have finally started feeding, the roots are recovering nicely. I used to get real into customizing nutrients, but at this point I just follow the manufacturers recommendations as far as ratios, (beyond the flexibility from 3 part). Strength I'm willing to dial way back. I used to feed very heavily, will be trying to be sensitive as they're autos.

Any idea what the brown spotting is if not Ca deficicency?

I think I read somewhere you use es300s? They are Way stronger than I gave them credit for. Having never been able to light stress a plant using HID, I really wasn't prepared for the power, which of course is deceptive because of the spectrum. I'm certainly glad they're strong enough to fry my plants, considering what they cost, I just have to learn to respect them. Right now they are 5' away on 4, and its plenty. Not really trying to get Too familiar with light stress, but certainly a new experience.

 

[Mañ'O'Green]

No, I have 2 ChilLed's GrowCraft 500s. The specs on your lights are good but there is no way you burned any plants from 4 feet away. It was more likely a nutrient burn of some sort.

Yes the spots on your leaf look like a calcium problem but most likeley has nothing to do with the amount of calcilum available to the plant. It is being locked out.

 

[Jovinn]

Hmm. What would be causing lockout? I'm pretty careful to mix gradually, in order, so as not to over concentrate and lockout nutes. (I have a bs in biochemistry for what that's worth.)
I had them full power 12" away from some big photos at the end of flowering, they handled it no problem. These being small and in less than optimal health didn't get burned, but there's definite loss of chlorophyll in patches on the sun leaves of one plant that I'm pretty sure could only be from too much light. With the side and bottom reflection, it really adds up. And I'm pretty sure that they don't decrease in intensity as the inverse square of distance like an omnidirectional point source (hid bulb) would, just due to physics and lensing. The footprint stays pretty tight.
But generally seem to be outgrowing whatever the problem was. The Hydro guard should work its magic, the roots are big, white and stringy, they're finally starting to feed. I probably should have had the water much higher to start, or been more diligent about top watering.
I watched the hours long Harley smith video, very interesting. Brix is certainly something I've never given any thought to. It's interesting how much pressure of various kinds is fundamentally what we're trying to control what with vpd, osmotic pressure in roots, photon flux density, hydrostatic pressure driving sap flow and transpiration. Although I've learned that constant fiddling is usually a bad idea, there's always more to learn about horticulture, and botany in general.
Anyway, thanks alot for your help, I really look forward to experiencing the magic and mystery that are autoflowers. And fuck coco from now on. Ill stick to peat/perlite or hydro. Use the coir for mushrooms. Works Fantastic as a bulk substrate.

 

[Mañ'O'Green]

Hmm. What would be causing lockout? I'm pretty careful to mix gradually, in order, so as not to over concentrate and lockout nutes. (I have a bs in biochemistry for what that's worth.)
I had them full power 12" away from some big photos at the end of flowering, they handled it no problem. These being small and in less than optimal health didn't get burned, but there's definite loss of chlorophyll in patches on the sun leaves of one plant that I'm pretty sure could only be from too much light. With the side and bottom reflection, it really adds up. And I'm pretty sure that they don't decrease in intensity as the inverse square of distance like an omnidirectional point source (hid bulb) would, just due to physics and lensing. The footprint stays pretty tight.
But generally seem to be outgrowing whatever the problem was. The Hydro guard should work its magic, the roots are big, white and stringy, they're finally starting to feed. I probably should have had the water much higher to start, or been more diligent about top watering.
I watched the hours long Harley smith video, very interesting. Brix is certainly something I've never given any thought to. It's interesting how much pressure of various kinds is fundamentally what we're trying to control what with vpd, osmotic pressure in roots, photon flux density, hydrostatic pressure driving sap flow and transpiration. Although I've learned that constant fiddling is usually a bad idea, there's always more to learn about horticulture, and botany in general.
Anyway, thanks alot for your help, I really look forward to experiencing the magic and mystery that are autoflowers. And fuck coco from now on. Ill stick to peat/perlite or hydro. Use the coir for mushrooms. Works Fantastic as a bulk substrate.

Coco is hydro.

Here are some clues ( without a lab we do a lot of guess work):

This is fairly simplistic but has visual value.

We can get another view of the same information here:

Then for the mind blowing picture:

The thing is I believe you when you say you added calcium, it is in your water and the base nutrients. The leaf is displaying a Ca problem. So either Too much Ca (maybe) or locked out. But IT Don't Matter because in hydro you can fix it right now! It is by far the greatest value in the growing system.

One reservoir change and the world is all good!

I like Harley Smith, I find him extremely qualified. Bruce Bugbee is another man to listen to.

I have run my Leds as close as 2 inches full power on old photos. The thing is at 36 inches your lights at full power are 1000 PPFD and that should not burn a plant but if you have Mylar walls You could focus light and burn a plant.