Mephisto Genetics DWC Orange Biscuits (NEW TESTERS) (2 tents, 2 plants)

[MissUniverse]

Since i did some work on seedling #1 (now on day 8 today and seedling #3 is now at true day 1 (what i call day 2) i have a few more photos

This morning I saw the one codylton beginning to curve upwards towards the light due to the codylton leaf turning yellow and turning up words (that is normal in dwc and a term for dead tissue on an otherwise healthy plant is called necrotic tissue or necrosis) which caught a true leaf causing it to curl downwards. I took a pair of fine print shears (the same ones i trim with) and gently snipped back the necrotic tissue on the offending codylton to allow it to begin it's explosion in growth. That offending codylton can be seen in the post in the previous photo moving the true leaf off center. The true leaf, and seedling itself, is now big enough to nip off the necrosis on that side

Seedling #1 Before nipping the necrosis on the codylton, you can see the true leaf on the right curling downwards and necrotic tissue on the codylton interfering with growth

Seedling #1 post debridement (necrotic tissue removal and cleaning of potentially infected area) on seedling 1, you can see the true leaf will now begin to grow more normally and be able to grow bigger, faster and without bizarre growth

Top view

And now SEED #2 on Day #2

 

[MissUniverse]

I am updating today as seedling 1's taproot hit water today and is taking to it fast. Last night i began to see the little "hair" that is the beginning of the main taproot but did not want to show it until it became an actual taproot.
I turned down the air in the bucket so the taproot will not be as disturbed by the turbulence in the water. I believe by snipping the codylton back, it allowed the leaf to settle back out and pushed the seedling into gear. I also believe the taproot is 2 or 3 days behind because of having to rearrange the seed. I do not believe it will cause issues as the taproot was able to go into the water before day 12.

Seedling 3 seems to be going much faster as it oriented itself correctly from the beginning. I will have to note to myself that the OB seeds tend to orient themselves a bit odd in the rapid rooters, as i did with seeds #1 and #2, which resulted in a more rapid germination to sprout above ground success.

Since i am interested in seeing if it's my set up causing the odd sprouting versus an inherent trait in OB, i did plant a seed of a different strain from Mephisto that I've had in my archives for a year. That seed is a Sour Crack F7 which is of some different lineages but should give me a good idea if it is my own hand or the genetics causing the twirling of the taproot during sprouting.



Seedling 1 day 9 (top view) as you can see, the leaf corrected itself well and i am pushing the seedling to the max with it's regmine of nutrients and light.

Seedling 1 taproot

Seedling 3 day 3

All 3 in the tent, 2 OB in seedling, the Sour Crack F7 is waiting to pop the soil (probably 4 more days). They will be separated when they get bigger and need their own spaces

 

[MissUniverse]

I'm at a bit of a frustration point with these seeds. To be quite honest I haven't had this kind of trouble in a long time. Seedling #1 is extremely stunted, but i am letting it go for now hoping for the best seedling 3 had a great start but had since puttered out and not grown further. I had looked at its roots that had begun coming out of the bucket yesterday and they had receeded and the roots were dying. I knew this was not good and decided to take the chance and pull up the rooter. Sadly i was right and the roots were beginning to rot and die away on seedling #3. The roots on seedling #1 are perfectly fine and have no issue.
The rooting issue is one that occurs sometimes with dwc when the taproot grows but then twirls back up into the netpot and begins growing in-between the next plastic mesh layer of the netpot and the hydroton at the very bottom right where the water meets the pot and it shoves the root in. However at the same time It appears the roots were growing towards the sky again on this one and did not want to grow towards the water either. So that was almost a repeat of seedling #2

I am very confused as to why all of these tap roots wanted to grow towards the sky???
As i stated i put a a tried and true meph strain, sour crack f7, in a DWC container right now to be sure I didn't mess up something, and it's truly the genetics making the taproots grow towards the sky.


Does anybody here have personal experience with this trait where the roots grow upwards instead of down in any seed of any species and does anyone know what this phenomenon would be called?

 

[HighnDry]

I'm at a bit of a frustration point with these seeds. To be quite honest I haven't had this kind of trouble in a long time. Seedling #1 is extremely stunted, but i am letting it go for now hoping for the best seedling 3 had a great start but had since puttered out and not grown further. I had looked at its roots that had begun coming out of the bucket yesterday and they had receeded and the roots were dying. I knew this was not good and decided to take the chance and pull up the rooter. Sadly i was right and the roots were beginning to rot and die away on seedling #3. The roots on seedling #1 are perfectly fine and have no issue.
The rooting issue is one that occurs sometimes with dwc when the taproot grows but then twirls back up into the netpot and begins growing in-between the next plastic mesh layer of the netpot and the hydroton at the very bottom right where the water meets the pot and it shoves the root in. However at the same time It appears the roots were growing towards the sky again on this one and did not want to grow towards the water either. So that was almost a repeat of seedling #2

I am very confused as to why all of these tap roots wanted to grow towards the sky???
As i stated i put a a tried and true meph strain, sour crack f7, in a DWC container right now to be sure I didn't mess up something, and it's truly the genetics making the taproots grow towards the sky.


Does anybody here have personal experience with this trait where the roots grow upwards instead of down in any seed of any species and does anyone know what this phenomenon would be called?

It's a new one on me. I've let one rockwool cube dry out before but nothing like this. Maybe @Mañ'O'Green might have an idea?

 

[MissUniverse]

It's a new one on me. I've let one rockwool cube dry out before but nothing like this. Maybe @Mañ'O'Green might have an idea?

The thing is that this wasn't a dried out rooter and that it was properly hydrated. It's so weird, I've never had this happen with any other strain but this single one. I really am wondering if I got a bad batch of rooters that were somehow stored improperly somewhere or got tested with some antimicrobial for covid cleaning. I could see some type of weird cleaning chemical doing that. I don't use weird chemicals for my cleaning, but that would do it. However i see nothing weird happening in my sour crack, it is just pushing the surface now and looks perfect.
I planted a sweet n sour partially to grow but also partially to test how the beginning of life goes vs the OB which should give me an idea of some other genetics too.
I do also have one Illuminautos release of OB which i could compare in dwc...

If the sour crack and the sweet n sour works through I'm going to start testing one of my purple Nuggs testers in the tent with the sour crack and have a double sided by side and probably ditch the OB as maybe it just isn't a DWC candidate. It is rare, but i have found a few strains not suited to dwc including bluetoof special which grows into just a mess of leaves and nothing else. So it's possible. I know meph breeds in soil. So i guess it might be a YMMV thing?

 

[MR magoo]

I also have two Orange Biscuits going took longer than usual to pop. I think the reason was germinating during a Full moon to Waning moon.
for the last 50 years or so i like to plant at the new to first quarter moon. 100% germ rate, up in 24 hours. everytime. off of that scedule and they struggle and are weaker. could be your problem too.

 

[HighnDry]

The thing is that this wasn't a dried out rooter and that it was properly hydrated. It's so weird, I've never had this happen with any other strain but this single one. I really am wondering if I got a bad batch of rooters that were somehow stored improperly somewhere or got tested with some antimicrobial for covid cleaning. I could see some type of weird cleaning chemical doing that. I don't use weird chemicals for my cleaning, but that would do it. However i see nothing weird happening in my sour crack, it is just pushing the surface now and looks perfect.
I planted a sweet n sour partially to grow but also partially to test how the beginning of life goes vs the OB which should give me an idea of some other genetics too.
I do also have one Illuminautos release of OB which i could compare in dwc...

If the sour crack and the sweet n sour works through I'm going to start testing one of my purple Nuggs testers in the tent with the sour crack and have a double sided by side and probably ditch the OB as maybe it just isn't a DWC candidate. It is rare, but i have found a few strains not suited to dwc including bluetoof special which grows into just a mess of leaves and nothing else. So it's possible. I know meph breeds in soil. So i guess it might be a YMMV thing?

I start mine with a 24hr soak and then direct plant an inch deep? Have you always let the seedlings orientate and 'plant themselves'? That part seems a bit alien to me

 

[Mañ'O'Green]

A few things to look at here. First did you plant the seeds deep enough at 1/2 inch. Next run blue heavy lights 24/0 until the first set of true leaves are about 1/2 inch long. If the tap root "sees" blue light it will turn and go the other way. Pathogens can come from your hands or tools when handling starter cubes. I actually started some seeds in stagenent water once by accident and killed them all with root rot. A 2ml/gallon of HydroGuard will solve the most common problems.

Rock wool starter cubes hold way way more water than any other starter sponges I have worked with. It is easy to over water them. I have a cube without a seed in the same tray with my starts and I heft it to determine when it is time to water leaving the cubes with seeds undisturbed. It will dry at the same rate until the plants start using water and by then I have transplanted them. Be sure to water your test cube at the same time as the rest of the cubes.

 

[MissUniverse]

I also have two Orange Biscuits going took longer than usual to pop. I think the reason was germinating during a Full moon to Waning moon.
for the last 50 years or so i like to plant at the new to first quarter moon. 100% germ rate, up in 24 hours. everytime. off of that scedule and they struggle and are weaker. could be your problem too.

I started noticing in dwc that as soon as it precipitates you can ruin a seed start too fwiw. Weird things

I start mine with a 24hr soak and then direct plant an inch deep? Have you always let the seedlings orientate and 'plant themselves'? That part seems a bit alien to me

I don't let them orient but they were not orienting right so i kinda had to let them reorient because of the way they had already sprouted. It was kind of out of my hands at that point sadly. I like to put them properly oriented in when possible.

A few things to look at here. First did you plant the seeds deep enough at 1/2 inch. Next run blue heavy lights 24/0 until the first set of true leaves are about 1/2 inch long. If the tap root "sees" blue light it will turn and go the other way. Pathogens can come from your hands or tools when handling starter cubes. I actually started some seeds in stagenent water once by accident and killed them all with root rot. A 2ml/gallon of HydroGuard will solve the most common problems.

Rock wool starter cubes hold way way more water than any other starter sponges I have worked with. It is easy to over water them. I have a cube without a seed in the same tray with my starts and I heft it to determine when it is time to water leaving the cubes with seeds undisturbed. It will dry at the same rate until the plants start using water and by then I have transplanted them. Be sure to water your test cube at the same time as the rest of the cubes.

I'm using rapid rooters and not rockwool cubes and never had an issue with them being too wet before (doesn't mean it couldn't be now. I also planted the seedsdeep as the rooter would allow it to (it's in DWC) oriented both the seed and the rooter in the proper positioning as i always do (so the tap root should go straight down and the sprout straight up). I am using strong grow lights which could be an issue? I use a biofungicide that has the same actives as hydroguard but it's possible i either didn't add enough or the seedling wasn't prepared for the water and it's taproot hit too fast.
I also use mykos and azos in my dwc set up and another thought that crossed my mind was that the strain needs extremely low strength nutes and beneficials compared to others

 

[Mañ'O'Green]

I never had a problem with Rapid Rooters being too wet. I have had troubles germinating with Azos a long time ago and quit using it back then. Not saying it has anything to do with this. I do not use Mykos or anything other than Kelp and weak nutrients 150 PPM during germination. I use the Mykos at transplant.

Sooner or later we all have troubles with germination. I think it is just part of farming!