New Grower First Grow Plan for White and Red dwarf and either Deimos or Syrup

I am kinda stuck on what to do in order to prevent the seedling from burning here are the options i'm teetering on

1.get seedling mix just implant the cup with the bottom cut off with young plant into FFOF
2.get those peat discs and when its ready, implant that into FFOF
3. or just bareback it and stick it in FFOF and hope for the best
 
Panic I have germed right into ffof but I burnt two seeds doing so one recovered the other just cooked I have heard of people having success by starting in seedling mix then cutting bottom out of cup it's a coin toss really in my opinion. I went to ffof because I previously stunted some autos by transplanting them so I took my chances in ffof. 7 of 8 seeds did fine that way. Sorry I wasn't more help peace best of luck
 
OK Bought the Herbie's Auto Fem 10 Pack I am going with the Dwarf duo and either Deimos or syrup (suggestions?)
Medium: Fox Farm Ocean Forest
Pot: 3x 3 gallons
Grow Space: Built Closet in shed 3'x3'x~8
Lights: Starting 4 Bulbs each at (100 w equiv)CFL 1,600 Lum 50,000K and Dual T-12 Fixture 65000K

Other Elements: 1x1500 watt space heater (its almost winter ill test distances for vent and Temp consistency), one Square fan (1.5'x1.5'), Temp/Hum meter Analog

Other known s: Germ by wet covered Napkin, Seedling directly into 3 gallon, Lights are on a pulley system, Flat white Paint, No Nutrients till week 4-6(based on observation of plant, and suggested by numerous written articles )

Now, the questions lol
1. What other specie is more tolerant for first grow? (syrup,or Deimos)
2. How much more lighting? (kinda going CFLs)
4. Can i use a piece of white poster board hanging above the lights to reflect?
3. Good Nutrients ? and How Much? and When? (going Cheap/ Willing to order since i have time)
4. Due to winter (its in a good shed in a closet) It has no Heat, but i have the space heater, any suggestions from previous experience? ( climate at night outside can drop to 30F typically will be around 40-50, and During the day will be typically 60-80F (South East Georgia, USA))

I've spent two weeks or more doing research, so as you can guess i know everything ....lol. But any advice is helpful, also anything you guys have in terms of direct observation on previously grown matching species will help. I Haven't started yet. I will post information/pics as they come. Thank you all, and thank god for the internet so there will be a lot less trial and error.

Panic

Hey Panic welcome to AFN bro!

I thought I'd throw in my two cents on your questions:

1. I'm currently growing a Buddha Seeds Syrup auto, it's a nice bushy girl so far and I'm just starting into flowering, has been relatively pain free growing so far (knock on wood.)

2. I only use CFL's for germination/seedlings, so these other guys will have to help you out with that. But a few things to think about (at least, these factored into my personal grows,) you generally want to try to achieve around 50 watts of light coverage per square foot. You've got a 3 foot by 3 foot floor area; so you've got 9 square feet. Four x 100W bulbs = 400W worth of light, divided by 9, gives you 44.4 watts per square foot. You may want to look into adding a couple more CFL's or a better light fixture (again, not my territory with that tech.) You'll want to use the blue spectrum CFL's during veg and red spectrum CFL's during flower (chlorophyll is a pigment molecule that absorbs a majority of the violet-blue and reddish-orange colors of the light spectrum. Some use both to give both ends of those spectrum.

3. Don't use white poster board, as namvet stated that's a pretty big fire risk. Do you have much of a budget left? You can get a 4 foot by 25 foot roll of actual grow quality mylar for around $20-25 (including shipping) online, or check your local grow stores. If this is going to be your grow space for awhile, I would suggest getting the right materials from the get-go and then you're set!

4. As for nutrients, personally I've used General Hydroponics General Organics (GO Box,) Advanced Nutrients pH Perfect Grow-Micro-Bloom, and I'm just starting to get into the Grow More products.

Dollar for dollar, hands down the Grow More was the CHEAPEST, holy moses brother! I got a few 5 pound tubs, some liquid nutes, root booster, and a few other things and my total with shipping was about $65 (and it should last me a good year or two or more.)

I would argue Advanced Nutrients is the most costly. Go visit their website and just take a look at all the different nutrient options. There are SOOOOO many additives to choose from. They do make it pretty slick and give you a nutrient calculator that lets you choose your grower level (increasing the level increases the suggest variety of nutes.) I'm personally going away from this just because of the cost; I run a ton of plants and I'm burning through my nutes pretty quickly. However, I will say I've never had such healthy looking plants until I did that Advanced Nutrients line; the pH perfect technology has pH buffers and chelated nutrients, which allows the nutes to be uptaken at a wider range of pH levels (great for newbies, although I recommend you learn to pH, as you WILL run into some problems throughout the grow.) If you run into troubles and have to post in the Infirmary forum; the pH is one of the first things you'll be asked!

5. Winter. We can absolutely get your grow space warm bro. 30 degrees Fahrenheit in the evening isn't bad at all; I'm looking at 10-15 below 0 Fahrenheit temperatures tomorrow myself!

I do have a few questions for you on this:

Is your shed insulated? Do you have a lot of drafts or open spaces that would let in cold?

Is your grow box you built free standing, or set next to an outer wall? Is that outer wall getting hit by prevailing winds? Is it insulated?

How big is the shed?

If it were me personally, I would start by insulating the shed itself if it's not. Even if that's not feasible to do, I would still insulate the grow box. You can get a good R-value roll of insulate at Lowe's or pretty much any hardware store for around $10-15 USD, you want to stuff any cracks, any open spots, any drafty spots, etc with batt insulation. Then, cover the entire exterior of the grow box with insulation. The point is to keep the warm air in, the cold air out.

Since it gets warmer during the day, I would think about getting a timer for the heater so it only kicks on for part of the night, that way you can kick it off around say like 4 in the morning, letting the heat slowly dissipate out so it stays warm until the sun comes up, then you can rely on mother nature.

I would NOT put the heater inside the grow space. That's pretty dangerous; you'd be better off bringing warm air in or finding a safer alternative.

As far as the Fox Farm and the fear of hot nutes, if you can get your hands on a growing medium that has virtually no nutrients or very light nights (I use Pro-MIX BX, it's very very light on nutes,) take your pots and hollow out like a grape fruit sized sphere on the top middle. Replace that soil with the "light" mix and plant your seedling into that. You only need enough growing medium that it can grow it's initial root system, once that's established and the plant is taking off, those roots can go into the "hotter" soil without as much fear. Put it this way, the new roots are like green horns on a job, they are a danger to you and everyone around them until they learn to follow directions and get their poop in a group. Once the "green horn" roots have been on the job for awhile, they can go on to more advanced jobs (ie, growing in more nutrient rich substrate.)

Any chance you could post pictures of your grow box/space? We could give you better advice if we could see what you're working with. Were you planning on only cooling with that one fan? You're going to want to set up a ventilation system in there with a fresh air intake and an exhaust.

Give us some more to work with and we'll get you set up straight bro! Good luck with everything! :karma Cloud: "MW"
 
Thanks again RP it good to see that your Ratio was that good if feel a bit better.


Vapor, (can i get a pic of syrup)
The grow closet shares two of the outer walls. I have spent the better part of a week getting rid of any place that has a draft from the outside. I am Going to post a pic of it in couple of hours. I have to apply a second coat of flat white paint. The actual lights i have are the 23w (100w equiv) cfl 1600 lumen at 5000K and i have 4 of them. I plan to do 4 more. For some reason i cant find the 6500k.

I have been wondering if i can do exactly what you said about just adding a softball size amount of seedling mix or generally neutral medium. In like probably 6 hours of searching i couldn't find an article relating to this, or i just couldn't come up with the exact wording for google to land it. (wtf how is google not a word yet) Im going to post pics shortly.

Thanks,
Bryan err Panic
 
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Panic the softball size hollow full of seedling mix will work great idea. I don't know how many cfls you need I start mine under cfls then go to mh 400 watts then 1000 watt hps for flowering. I like it bright you know. Glad to see you are getting help afn will have you straightened out and going like a pro. 90% of what I know about growing I learned here and I still have lots to learn. Peace
 
here are pics its not done yet, but i ll take any insight IMG_20131120_135458.jpgIMG_20131120_135511.jpgIMG_20131120_135527.jpgIMG_20131120_135554(1).jpgIMG_20131120_135554(1).jpgIMG_20131120_140013.jpg
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i am adding another 4cfls or i have a hps fixture that was from the shed build. I have to see how i can integrate that, but it might not be feesable. the floor will be lined with that reflective insulate, and the bottom quadrant will be lined with that as well. Ill be honest that heat fan on top of the square cube fan was subtle and effective.I am in debate if i should rock it or not. well i am interested in your guys feed back.

Thanks
Panic
 
Vapor, (can i get a pic of syrup)

Sure bro, this is from my current grow! This is day 27 from germination, under 1800W of HPS (mostly Metal Halide during veg) on a 24/0 light schedule, in a 2 gallon pail. I'm currently about 34 or 36 days on her; she's a few inches taller and bushier with flowers starting to form.

294803d1384139742-vapors-ridiculous-15-auto-strains-5th-grow-dscf2483.jpg


294805d1384139750-vapors-ridiculous-15-auto-strains-5th-grow-dscf2498.jpg


I have been wondering if i can do exactly what you said about just adding a softball size amount of seedling mix or generally neutral medium. In like probably 6 hours of searching i couldn't find an article relating to this, or i just couldn't come up with the exact wording for google to land it. (wtf how is google not a word yet) Im going to post pics shortly.

You'll be totally safe doing this; you're essentially creating a buffer area that's easier for your plant to start growing in. I wouldn't start mixing nutrient rich soil mixes together, but the goal is to have a light to no nutrient area for the seedling to start off in. See, the two round leaves that first sprout on your seedlings are called cotyledons. These give the seedling it's initial nutrients until it develops it's root systems and leaves to support itself. You start blasting it with nutes, and you're trying to make it run before it learned to crawl.

Now, looking at your grow space, here's my personal opinion:

298526d1384974938-first-grow-plan-white-red-dwarf-either-deimos-syrup-img_20131120_135511.jpg


If you're worried about heat loss and cold temperatures, if it were me, I would buy a roll of insulation and cut my pieces to fit all those open spaces in the interior walls. Then I'd take some 1/4" OSB/particle/chip board and cut them to fit the interior walls so you've got all smooth walls. Looking at this picture, you have a ton of angles and corners for light to reflect in which way it wants; I would try to create a more uniform surface for the light to reflect on. Flat and smooth! If you're going this far, I'd ditch that paint and get some reflective mylar and stick it on either with a low/no-VOC industrial spray or sticky-back adhesive.

You'll want to try to insulate your door to the grow space somehow; you could tack insulation to it, use rigid insulation, etc.

The goal is to make this baby as air tight and insulated as possible so that the air is flowing in and out primarily only where YOU want it to go. Air and odor travels fastest through the paths of least resistance, so let's make those paths the right ones!

Also, do you have drip drays for your plants? You may have excess water runoff during watering or spill accidentally; wouldn't hurt to stick down a reflective material on there and some spill proof material to boot. Wet wood promotes mold growth; and we do NOT want that.

Are you sold on your analog temp/humidity equipment? You can get a battery operated digital temp/humidity monitor that gives you current and LOW/HIGH averages over 24 hours. Very handy to see just how low the temps got overnight (instead of setting up camp with a sleeping bag in the grow room next to the thermometer haha :rofl: ) If not for the ease of use; it gives you more insight into your temperature ranges.

It's also not a bad idea to do some "dry runs" with your temperatures. Leave the lights on for 24 hours and see what your high and low temperatures are through the day. Record the temps before you start any insulating and see how they fare afterwards. The less surprises when you start growing, the better. :stylez rasta smoke:

298528d1384974948-first-grow-plan-white-red-dwarf-either-deimos-syrup-img_20131120_135527.jpg


How is the ceiling of the grow space set up? Is it totally open? Space cut for the size of the fan? Are you opposed to using in-line fans and flex duct?

What are you planning on doing for smell? These plants WILL stink. There may be "low odor" strains, but there are no "no odor" strains, and you will want to address this before you start growing and not afterwards when you open up your shed and smell the most obvious smell you've ever smelled (or worse, smelling it OUTSIDE.) Trust me, it doesn't take much to chief up a big area, especially during flowering!

I would highly recommend looking into carbon scrubbers, which in this case is usually an inline device with a ported opening filled with activated carbon, which is carbon that's been super heated at high temperatures to create micro valleys and pores in the surface area of the carbon for molecules to get trapped (both odor causing molecules and other.)

Here's a picture of one of my 6" carbon scrubbers with a 6" 400 CFM (Cubic Feet per Minute) centrifuge fan attached to it.

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The 400 CFM fan pulls air through the filter (which is a porous metal grate that has a fibrous sleeve that fits over the entire enclosure; this is a pre-filter that catches larger molecules like dirt and dust, you want to prevent these from reaching the carbon as they more easily coat the surface area, diminishing the effectiveness.

They work incredibly slick; if you've spent any time at all looking at odor control methods on the internet, I'm sure you've seen carbon scrubbers mentioned.

I started a guide here on AFN for odor control and reduction methods; it's a work in progress (been on the back burner for a bit,) but I've had a few other members on here tell me it helped them understand the stink of their plants better haha!

Here's the link to that if you care for a read:

Vapor's Comprehensive Guide to Odor Control and Reduction Methods

At 3 ft by 3 ft by about 8 ft, you've got roughly 72 cubic feet of space.

I personally have a 4 foot by 4 foot by 7 foot tent (112 cubic feet,) and a 3 foot by 2 foot by 5 foot tent (30 cubic feet.)

To give you an idea, I exhaust each of those tents with a 6" 400 CFM centrifuge attached to a 6" carbon scrubber and use a 6" 240 CFM inline can fan for my fresh air intake. It has worked swimmingly for me, and it also achieves negative air pressure (exhausting more air in the space than you're bringing in.)

Why would you want negative air pressure in your space? Remember when I said that air and odor follows the path of least resistance? If you are exhausting more air than you're bringing in, you're creating a point of suction at your exhaust that is drawing air towards it. This means those odor causing molecules in the air will head towards the exit (your scrubber,) and not passive air intakes or leaks/cracks in your grow area. If you had positive air pressure, you'd be blowing more air into the grow space than exhausting, which would force the air to find it's own exits (and I promise you it will, unless you're the most epic builder known to man.)

If you're working on a strapped budget; let us know and we can work with what you have. If you're willing to spend a few bucks, consider this post at least some food for thought; definitely do your own research so you can decide for yourself what feels good for you and best for your wallet; and ultimately one way or another you'll be on your way to growing some buds! :wiz:

It's incredibly addictive, if you don't want to invest into it now, just wait until you get your first harvest and say to yourself "... I can do this better next time!" And then you DO it! Hope this helps you out a bit bro! :karma Cloud:
 
Vapor,
Again another well written article. I am starting to think i am only going to grow one or maybe two plant. I have been looking for a Charcoal Airfilter. I m sure you understand that once you think you have enough your not even close. I know i am going to insulate it. I still have some work to do. Thanks again.

Did you catch the 16oz grow competition. I would be more than lucky to turn out a plant like that.

Thanks
 
I agree panic superb write vapor and thanks for the link a must watch for me. I can't see your pics panic on my iPhone PC is down but I see you got lots of good help here. I agree with vapor growing is addicting I started off with one plant four cfls since then I have gone a little over board and won't list all here but I had to move to a place big enough for a grow room lol. I am addicted. Best of luck again!!!
 
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