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Riants ballest.
Lighting Induction lighting revisited
- Thread starter lazylathe
- Start date
Awesome stuff scarhole!!!
Thanks for the links etc!!!
Some more reading to do!
In case anyone is interested Riant have a page about how their lights help us grow our herb!!
http://www.riant-lighting.com/How-do-our-induction-grow-lights-help-cannabis-or-marijuana-grow.html
Thanks for the links etc!!!
Some more reading to do!
In case anyone is interested Riant have a page about how their lights help us grow our herb!!
http://www.riant-lighting.com/How-do-our-induction-grow-lights-help-cannabis-or-marijuana-grow.html
Found this while reading articles on Induction lighting.
It was on a site growweedeasy.
Just a few excerpts:
However, in a sealed room where the magnetic grow lights are the only source of light, the results are less remarkable. As a primary source of light when growing indoors, magnetic induction lights seem to perform about as well as fluorescent lights like CFLs or the T5, but at a much higher initial cost.
Should You Go Out and Invest In Magnetic Induction Grow Lights?
Remember, magnetic induction grow lights basically just fluorescent lights without electrodes. No matter what the vendors try to say otherwise, don’t fall for some of the outrageous marketing claims!
If you’re looking for a magical grow light that doesn’t produce any heat, uses next to no electricity, and produces humongous yields compared to LEDs, MH, or HPS grow lights, then you’re kidding yourself. Magnetic induction grow lights just aren’t what you’re looking for.
But...
If you’re looking for a type of grow light that is low heat, uses a relatively low amount of electricity, has a good form factor for your grow area and you hate replacing your fluorescent bulbs, than magnetic induction grow lights may be the right choice for you.
It was on a site growweedeasy.
Just a few excerpts:
However, in a sealed room where the magnetic grow lights are the only source of light, the results are less remarkable. As a primary source of light when growing indoors, magnetic induction lights seem to perform about as well as fluorescent lights like CFLs or the T5, but at a much higher initial cost.
Should You Go Out and Invest In Magnetic Induction Grow Lights?
Remember, magnetic induction grow lights basically just fluorescent lights without electrodes. No matter what the vendors try to say otherwise, don’t fall for some of the outrageous marketing claims!
If you’re looking for a magical grow light that doesn’t produce any heat, uses next to no electricity, and produces humongous yields compared to LEDs, MH, or HPS grow lights, then you’re kidding yourself. Magnetic induction grow lights just aren’t what you’re looking for.
But...
If you’re looking for a type of grow light that is low heat, uses a relatively low amount of electricity, has a good form factor for your grow area and you hate replacing your fluorescent bulbs, than magnetic induction grow lights may be the right choice for you.
That's a bad ass deal!!
Considering a single indigrow 420w will run 700$ plus shipping.
But I thought Riant sold single lights also?
Was it Mr Wu who told you they required 3 for a minimum?
Induction Lighting Vs Fluorescent T5 Vs LED Lighting
Michael Ng, Director of Marketing for Amko SOLARA Induction Lamps, describes briefly
the applications and comparisons of different lighting sources with Induction
Lighting in this short interview.
1. What is the difference between traditional fluorescent light and induction light?
An induction light is similar to a fluorescent light in that mercury in a gas fill inside the bulb is excited,
emitting UV radiation that in turn is converted into visible white light by the phosphor coating on the
bulb. Like fluorescent, the phosphor coating determines the color qualities of the light.
Fluorescent lamps use electrodes to strike the arc and initiate the flow of current through the
lamp, which excites the gas fill. Each time voltage is supplied by the ballast and the arc is struck,
causing the lamp to fail. Induction lamps do not use electrodes. Instead of a ballast, the system uses a
the electrodes degrade a little, eventually high-frequency generator with a power coupler. The
generator produces a radio frequency magnetic field to excite gas fill. With no electrodes, the lamp
lasts longer. Induction lamps, in fact, last up to 100,000 hours, with the lamp producing 70% of its
light output at 60,000 hours. In other words, their rated life is 5-13 times longer than metal halide
(7,500 to 20,000 hours at 10 hours/start) and about seven times longer than T12HO
fluorescent (at 10 hours/start).
2. How efficient or energy saving is it?
While induction lamps can generate more lumens per watt compared to metal
halides (80 v. 70), it is not as efficient as T5’s that powers 100+ lumens per watt.
3. What kind of application is induction lighting for?
Induction lamps are ideally suited for high-ceiling applications where the lamps are
difficult, costly or hazardous to access. They are also ideally suited for such applications
where the advantages of fluorescent lighting are sought but a light source is needed
that can start and operate efficiently in extremely cold temperatures. As a result, induction
lighting is a suitable for a wide range of applications, including not only warehouses,
industrial buildings, cafeterias, gymnasiums, etc., but also signage, tunnels, bridges, roadways,
outdoor area and security fixtures, parking garages, public spaces, and freezer and cold storage
lighting.
For some applications, well-designed linear induction hi-bays are better than well-designed
HID hi-bays with regard to glare, contrast ratios and vertical foot candles. Here are two
examples. Imagine yourself playing volleyball. As you follow the high arching ball coming
towards you, would you prefer having to look up into a point source HID bi-bay or a 4ft long
induction hi-bay with one 400W lamp? Imagine yourself as a forklift driver having to deal with
vertical surfaces and load and unload pallets in high warehouse racks. Compare vertical foot
candles with well-designed 4-ft., 8-ft. or extended-row linear induction hi-bays mounted in the
middle of rack aisle row parallel to the racks with well-designed HID hi-bays mounted in the middle of
rack aisle row. Envision how easily a loaded pallet can block the light from the point source HID lamp.
4. What are the increased costs to use induction lighting?
The increased costs occurs in the induction systems themselves – which could be 5 to
6 times more than metal halide systems, and also in new fixtures, which can inflate
payback periods and reduce return on investment. But you also generally get a 30% reduction
in capital and operating costs immediately from the reduced number of fixtures made possible
by the higher light output. You also get 15% more efficiency just because the induction system
(lamp and electronic ballast) is more efficient. Apply that over ten years plus replacement and
maintenance costs and suddenly it makes a lot of sense to go into induction lighting systems.
5. What advantages are there for induction lights v. metal halides
I think the biggest advantage that induction lighting has over metal halides is the ability to instantly start
and shut off. The reason I said that is because we see the fastest growing replacement of metal halides
to induction in areas like tunnel and street lighting. Why? Because a driver driving at 55mph cannot
afford to be inside a pitch dark tunnel for more than 2 minutes waiting for the metal halides to
restart! Many tunnel lighting fixtures have an emergency direct current backup where the light
will run on batteries until the electrical power is back up. Metal halides, once turned off in an outage
require a cooling off period for the gases to return to a solid state before it can restart itself.
A solution to this problem is to install fluorescent lamps such as T5’s or CFL lamps, as emergency
lamps that will light up immediately. But that in turn increases the installation of fixtures and
lights, as well as periodically testing these back up lamps to see if they are still functional.
Not to mention that these are usually installed in minimum quantities and in low wattages that
barely suffice as emergency lighting. Our tunnel fixture installed with SOLARA induction lamp will switch to DC power
immediately and keep the tunnel lit as if nothing has happened.
Another advantage induction lighting has over metal halide is lumen maintenance. Most significantly,
at 40% of service life, metal halide’s light output and efficacy experience severe degradation.
A 400W metal halide lamp, for example, may produce 36,000 lumens but 25,000 at 40% of life,
a 30% decline. Therefore, unless the lamps are periodically group-relamped, a large system’s
“average” performance over time is much lower than its initial ratings. Tests on the 400W SOLARA
Induction lamps on the other side, retains 82% output after 20,000 hours (that’s already more
than the rated hours on metal halides) and still puts out 70% after 60,000 hours. You would
have replaced at least 6 metal halide bulbs by then and the last bulb will be running at 50% output.
6. How does induction light compare with LED?
Well we all know that Light Emitting Diodes are not considered for general lighting purposes
because of its limited brightness and poor color rendering, but this is compensated by
its high reliability and high color temperature. It is still a common mistake that many
people make thinking that higher color temperature, say 6000k, means higher brightness.
LED however, does have the same theoretical lifespan of 100,000 plus hours as induction
light, given that the integrated chip does not fail before the diode. Many LED manufacturers
neglect to fit a decent high temperature IC or integrate some kind of heat dissipation device
and their LEDs fail after only 10,000 hours.
Induction light on the other hand, offers the same stability and lifespan as LEDs but is available in much
higher wattages and brightness that it can truly replace incandescent and discharge lamps as the next
revolutionary lighting source. In the end, both are emerging technologies and are getting as
much attention and improvements as the other so you can expect these problems to be
corrected in the near future.
7. What about T5?
The T5 is a very effective fluorescent light because it tops 100 lumens per watt whereas
the SOLARA generates between 80 and 85 lumens per watt. The only problem is T5 is
not available in higher wattages – you can generally find a T5 tube up to 58W, but
there is a German manufacturer that produces a 90W T5 at a relatively high price.
When you are limited to small wattages, you have no choice but to use multiple tubes together
to increase the total lumens output, hence increasing your material costs in terms of additional
inventory and lighting fixtures.
Michael Ng, Director of Marketing for Amko SOLARA Induction Lamps, describes briefly
the applications and comparisons of different lighting sources with Induction
Lighting in this short interview.
1. What is the difference between traditional fluorescent light and induction light?
An induction light is similar to a fluorescent light in that mercury in a gas fill inside the bulb is excited,
emitting UV radiation that in turn is converted into visible white light by the phosphor coating on the
bulb. Like fluorescent, the phosphor coating determines the color qualities of the light.
Fluorescent lamps use electrodes to strike the arc and initiate the flow of current through the
lamp, which excites the gas fill. Each time voltage is supplied by the ballast and the arc is struck,
causing the lamp to fail. Induction lamps do not use electrodes. Instead of a ballast, the system uses a
the electrodes degrade a little, eventually high-frequency generator with a power coupler. The
generator produces a radio frequency magnetic field to excite gas fill. With no electrodes, the lamp
lasts longer. Induction lamps, in fact, last up to 100,000 hours, with the lamp producing 70% of its
light output at 60,000 hours. In other words, their rated life is 5-13 times longer than metal halide
(7,500 to 20,000 hours at 10 hours/start) and about seven times longer than T12HO
fluorescent (at 10 hours/start).
2. How efficient or energy saving is it?
While induction lamps can generate more lumens per watt compared to metal
halides (80 v. 70), it is not as efficient as T5’s that powers 100+ lumens per watt.
3. What kind of application is induction lighting for?
Induction lamps are ideally suited for high-ceiling applications where the lamps are
difficult, costly or hazardous to access. They are also ideally suited for such applications
where the advantages of fluorescent lighting are sought but a light source is needed
that can start and operate efficiently in extremely cold temperatures. As a result, induction
lighting is a suitable for a wide range of applications, including not only warehouses,
industrial buildings, cafeterias, gymnasiums, etc., but also signage, tunnels, bridges, roadways,
outdoor area and security fixtures, parking garages, public spaces, and freezer and cold storage
lighting.
For some applications, well-designed linear induction hi-bays are better than well-designed
HID hi-bays with regard to glare, contrast ratios and vertical foot candles. Here are two
examples. Imagine yourself playing volleyball. As you follow the high arching ball coming
towards you, would you prefer having to look up into a point source HID bi-bay or a 4ft long
induction hi-bay with one 400W lamp? Imagine yourself as a forklift driver having to deal with
vertical surfaces and load and unload pallets in high warehouse racks. Compare vertical foot
candles with well-designed 4-ft., 8-ft. or extended-row linear induction hi-bays mounted in the
middle of rack aisle row parallel to the racks with well-designed HID hi-bays mounted in the middle of
rack aisle row. Envision how easily a loaded pallet can block the light from the point source HID lamp.
4. What are the increased costs to use induction lighting?
The increased costs occurs in the induction systems themselves – which could be 5 to
6 times more than metal halide systems, and also in new fixtures, which can inflate
payback periods and reduce return on investment. But you also generally get a 30% reduction
in capital and operating costs immediately from the reduced number of fixtures made possible
by the higher light output. You also get 15% more efficiency just because the induction system
(lamp and electronic ballast) is more efficient. Apply that over ten years plus replacement and
maintenance costs and suddenly it makes a lot of sense to go into induction lighting systems.
5. What advantages are there for induction lights v. metal halides
I think the biggest advantage that induction lighting has over metal halides is the ability to instantly start
and shut off. The reason I said that is because we see the fastest growing replacement of metal halides
to induction in areas like tunnel and street lighting. Why? Because a driver driving at 55mph cannot
afford to be inside a pitch dark tunnel for more than 2 minutes waiting for the metal halides to
restart! Many tunnel lighting fixtures have an emergency direct current backup where the light
will run on batteries until the electrical power is back up. Metal halides, once turned off in an outage
require a cooling off period for the gases to return to a solid state before it can restart itself.
A solution to this problem is to install fluorescent lamps such as T5’s or CFL lamps, as emergency
lamps that will light up immediately. But that in turn increases the installation of fixtures and
lights, as well as periodically testing these back up lamps to see if they are still functional.
Not to mention that these are usually installed in minimum quantities and in low wattages that
barely suffice as emergency lighting. Our tunnel fixture installed with SOLARA induction lamp will switch to DC power
immediately and keep the tunnel lit as if nothing has happened.
Another advantage induction lighting has over metal halide is lumen maintenance. Most significantly,
at 40% of service life, metal halide’s light output and efficacy experience severe degradation.
A 400W metal halide lamp, for example, may produce 36,000 lumens but 25,000 at 40% of life,
a 30% decline. Therefore, unless the lamps are periodically group-relamped, a large system’s
“average” performance over time is much lower than its initial ratings. Tests on the 400W SOLARA
Induction lamps on the other side, retains 82% output after 20,000 hours (that’s already more
than the rated hours on metal halides) and still puts out 70% after 60,000 hours. You would
have replaced at least 6 metal halide bulbs by then and the last bulb will be running at 50% output.
6. How does induction light compare with LED?
Well we all know that Light Emitting Diodes are not considered for general lighting purposes
because of its limited brightness and poor color rendering, but this is compensated by
its high reliability and high color temperature. It is still a common mistake that many
people make thinking that higher color temperature, say 6000k, means higher brightness.
LED however, does have the same theoretical lifespan of 100,000 plus hours as induction
light, given that the integrated chip does not fail before the diode. Many LED manufacturers
neglect to fit a decent high temperature IC or integrate some kind of heat dissipation device
and their LEDs fail after only 10,000 hours.
Induction light on the other hand, offers the same stability and lifespan as LEDs but is available in much
higher wattages and brightness that it can truly replace incandescent and discharge lamps as the next
revolutionary lighting source. In the end, both are emerging technologies and are getting as
much attention and improvements as the other so you can expect these problems to be
corrected in the near future.
7. What about T5?
The T5 is a very effective fluorescent light because it tops 100 lumens per watt whereas
the SOLARA generates between 80 and 85 lumens per watt. The only problem is T5 is
not available in higher wattages – you can generally find a T5 tube up to 58W, but
there is a German manufacturer that produces a 90W T5 at a relatively high price.
When you are limited to small wattages, you have no choice but to use multiple tubes together
to increase the total lumens output, hence increasing your material costs in terms of additional
inventory and lighting fixtures.
From Riant the price per light and ballast was $385 without the reflector.
They will sell single lights.
The other price was for 3 lights and ballasts!
I thought that $642 for 3 lamps plus the ballasts was a great deal!!
I found them on alibaba!
LED -vs- Induction
From a marketing point of view Induction lamps have taken a back seat to LED lamps when it comes to what the LED lamp manufacturers are doing to promote the use of their lights for area and grow lighting applications. Their spectacular claims as what a particular brand of LED grow lamp can do to increase yields by providing high energy lumen output, at lower wattages, lower temperatures, longer lifespans and PAR specific spectrums that conventional grow lights do not deliver on would appeal to anyone interested in bringing the best light to their plants at the savings being described.
The LED's Dark Secret
The blue light-emitting diode, arguably the greatest optoelectronic advance of the past 25 years, harbors a dark secret: Crank up the current and its efficiencies will plummet. The problem is known as droop, and it's not only puzzling the brightest minds in the field, it's also threatening the future of the electric lighting industry.
Richard Stevenson - IEEE Spectrum, August 2009
Since none of the LED marketing materials ever addresses the cost of buying an LED grow light or for that matter induction grow lights as an alternative let's examine the science instead of the hype.
LED LAMP LIFE: Most LED grow light manufacturers will claim their lamps will last for a 50,000 hour lifespan. We've even seen others that have advertised 100,000 hour lifespans. To that I can only say that Chinese made LED lamps have had a poor track record in meeting the advertised lifespans, when they fail early the warranty claims tend to be denied and blamed on a customer responsible heat management issue and the accuracy of their specification or ‘white' sheets is not always reliable.
So if an LED lamp is going to survive 50,000 hours then this is what it must weigh its claimed life spans against:
For the grower to make an informed decision regarding the lifespans of that particular manufacturers LED lamp, they'll want to identify two things from the white sheets and having been confirmed by independent testing labs;
(L70) What is the Lumen Maintenance Level? This will be expressed as the L70 measurement and will be represented in hours and is the point where the LED lamps are giving off only 70% of their initial lumen output when new. Below this point they are considered 'failed' and should be replaced.
(B50) What is the failure (mortality rate)? This is a statistical measurement of when 50% of the new LED lamps have fallen below the L70 lumen output threshold levels.
As a rule; the harder that you drive a LED the shorter its L70/B50 life will be as the higher temperatures lead to shorter lifespans. This is a hidden cost that one must consider when making a long term capital investment in an LED lighting system that costs around $5 per watt.
When an LED does fail it affects your plants health with lighting downtime. To keep the downtime to a minimum and to get the LED grow lights back on the plants you have options; make the repairs yourself or return it to the manufacturer for the repair.
If you have a replacement LED lamp and are able and willing to replace the failed lamp, which has been soldered onto the fixtures heat sink, then you'll have limited some of your down time while you install the replacement LED lamp.
Otherwise you'll be sending the entire fixture back to the manufacturer and if it's still within the warranty period, would hopefully make the timely repair or replacement without having to ‘regretfully inform you that the fixture is no longer within warranty period' or determine ‘customer responsible failure not covered under warranty'.
Of note: on March 18, 2010 the US AIR FORCE issued a memorandum in which they removed LED lamps as an option for energy retrofit area lighting projects as a result of many of the LED installations having proven themselves to not have delivered sufficient lumen levels and not having met the published L70 and B50 standards within previous installations.
THE IMPORTANCE OF BIN CODES
If you ever have to order LED replacement lamps it's important you have an understanding of LED BIN CODING as this is how the lamps are rated for color, efficiencies, forward voltage, and flux ratings.
This is important because you will pay a more for an LED lamp that operates with 25% efficiency then one that operates at 15% efficiency. Dealing with an understanding of Bin Coding is your only hope that the same lamp you ordered one day will be the same lamp you get upon a reorder.
From a marketing point of view Induction lamps have taken a back seat to LED lamps when it comes to what the LED lamp manufacturers are doing to promote the use of their lights for area and grow lighting applications. Their spectacular claims as what a particular brand of LED grow lamp can do to increase yields by providing high energy lumen output, at lower wattages, lower temperatures, longer lifespans and PAR specific spectrums that conventional grow lights do not deliver on would appeal to anyone interested in bringing the best light to their plants at the savings being described.
The LED's Dark Secret
The blue light-emitting diode, arguably the greatest optoelectronic advance of the past 25 years, harbors a dark secret: Crank up the current and its efficiencies will plummet. The problem is known as droop, and it's not only puzzling the brightest minds in the field, it's also threatening the future of the electric lighting industry.
Richard Stevenson - IEEE Spectrum, August 2009
Since none of the LED marketing materials ever addresses the cost of buying an LED grow light or for that matter induction grow lights as an alternative let's examine the science instead of the hype.
LED LAMP LIFE: Most LED grow light manufacturers will claim their lamps will last for a 50,000 hour lifespan. We've even seen others that have advertised 100,000 hour lifespans. To that I can only say that Chinese made LED lamps have had a poor track record in meeting the advertised lifespans, when they fail early the warranty claims tend to be denied and blamed on a customer responsible heat management issue and the accuracy of their specification or ‘white' sheets is not always reliable.
So if an LED lamp is going to survive 50,000 hours then this is what it must weigh its claimed life spans against:
For the grower to make an informed decision regarding the lifespans of that particular manufacturers LED lamp, they'll want to identify two things from the white sheets and having been confirmed by independent testing labs;
(L70) What is the Lumen Maintenance Level? This will be expressed as the L70 measurement and will be represented in hours and is the point where the LED lamps are giving off only 70% of their initial lumen output when new. Below this point they are considered 'failed' and should be replaced.
(B50) What is the failure (mortality rate)? This is a statistical measurement of when 50% of the new LED lamps have fallen below the L70 lumen output threshold levels.
As a rule; the harder that you drive a LED the shorter its L70/B50 life will be as the higher temperatures lead to shorter lifespans. This is a hidden cost that one must consider when making a long term capital investment in an LED lighting system that costs around $5 per watt.
When an LED does fail it affects your plants health with lighting downtime. To keep the downtime to a minimum and to get the LED grow lights back on the plants you have options; make the repairs yourself or return it to the manufacturer for the repair.
If you have a replacement LED lamp and are able and willing to replace the failed lamp, which has been soldered onto the fixtures heat sink, then you'll have limited some of your down time while you install the replacement LED lamp.
Otherwise you'll be sending the entire fixture back to the manufacturer and if it's still within the warranty period, would hopefully make the timely repair or replacement without having to ‘regretfully inform you that the fixture is no longer within warranty period' or determine ‘customer responsible failure not covered under warranty'.
Of note: on March 18, 2010 the US AIR FORCE issued a memorandum in which they removed LED lamps as an option for energy retrofit area lighting projects as a result of many of the LED installations having proven themselves to not have delivered sufficient lumen levels and not having met the published L70 and B50 standards within previous installations.
THE IMPORTANCE OF BIN CODES
If you ever have to order LED replacement lamps it's important you have an understanding of LED BIN CODING as this is how the lamps are rated for color, efficiencies, forward voltage, and flux ratings.
This is important because you will pay a more for an LED lamp that operates with 25% efficiency then one that operates at 15% efficiency. Dealing with an understanding of Bin Coding is your only hope that the same lamp you ordered one day will be the same lamp you get upon a reorder.
This video shows the kinda spectrum I like to run.
They have a spectra very similar to my Riant 400w...
[video=youtube;lgHzII9M4I0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgHzII9M4I0&sns=em[/video]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgHzII9M4I0&sns=em
They have a spectra very similar to my Riant 400w...
[video=youtube;lgHzII9M4I0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgHzII9M4I0&sns=em[/video]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgHzII9M4I0&sns=em
Hey Scarhole!
I have just sold my two BlackStar lights!
Looks like i am in the market for some revolutionary lighting!!!
Could i trouble you for a pic of your grow with the light in action?
I am still a bit undecided about the effectiveness of this technology though...
Also trying to figure out if the Riant spectrum would be better than the alibaba one i found.
I am quite liking the 3 400Watt Induction lights for $640!
I have just sold my two BlackStar lights!
Looks like i am in the market for some revolutionary lighting!!!
Could i trouble you for a pic of your grow with the light in action?
I am still a bit undecided about the effectiveness of this technology though...
Also trying to figure out if the Riant spectrum would be better than the alibaba one i found.
I am quite liking the 3 400Watt Induction lights for $640!
I have lots of pics up in my journal here....
https://www.autoflower.org/f117/scarhole-auto-project-15268-15.html#post402500p
https://www.autoflower.org/f117/scarhole-auto-project-15268-15.html#post402500p
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