Ok.. here we go...

[Waira]

Trip, pardon the delay mate,... I think you had several things go wrong here, with that dry-out being a real kicker for this mess,...and also winging it w/o a TDS/EC meter, not knowing your input and run-off ppm's to see what's going in there. Coco is so unlike true soil, with it's peculiar CEC characteristics,... and if you didn't rinse and rebuffer after each use, this CEC balance was already iffy to begin with... coco is a Ca hog, and will preferentially bind it to itself until saturated, keeping it from the plant,.. it also has native K and Na in it, most of which is dealt with when aged and buffered by the manufacturer,... if the coco lost much of it's bound Ca++, it'll bind K+ in it's place,.. the K+ get's displaced by the Ca++ due to it's stronger charge, releasing the K+ as a free ion,... add a big boost of Ca++ and the bound K+ gets released, and you can end up with K toxicity from both the high nutrient content and what got booted off the coco particles... some of your symptoms (burned 'teeth" and margins) are K-tox' symptoms, along with the Ca defc. symptoms,... P likely got involved and locked too from that super low pH bounce! When the medium dries like that, the relative conc. of nute's goes up-- less water, less dilution, and when that happens, pH becomes TARFU acidic,... Flushing with coco is a different deal vs soil from my research.. I've seen recommendations for purging excess salt ions and resetting the buffering by using a specific formulation of flush water: use RO/DI water, add Ca-Mg (all carbonate based preferred, not the nitrate based) to get 150ppm, then make 150ppm of nute's solution and combine, pH to 6.0, and flush flush flush until the run-off is at or near the in-going pH and ppm's,...
... symptoms take time to halt after a correction, and damage in this case won't reverse,.. roots have been put through a beating! but if she's drinking again, then you saved her from the worst of the wipe-out! Are you using coco specific nutes? These are formulated to help deal with this coco CEC bizz,...

Magnesium deficiency will exhibit a yellowing (which may turn brown) and interveinal chlorosis beginning in the older leaves. The older leaves will be the first to develop interveinal chlorosis. Starting at leaf margin or tip and progressing inward between the veins. Notice how the veins remain somewhat green though as can be seen in figure 15.
Notice how in figure 16 and 17 the leaves curl upwards like they're praying? They're praying for Mg! The tips may also twist.
This can be quickly resolved by watering with 1 tablespoon Epsom salts/gallon of water. Until you can correct nutrient lockout, try foliar feeding. That way the plants get all the nitrogen and Mg they need. The plants can be foliar feed at ½ teaspoon/quart of Epsom salts (first powdered and dissolved in some hot water). When mixing up soil, use 2 teaspoon dolomite lime per gallon of soil.
If the starting water is above 200 ppm, that is pretty hard water, that will lock out mg with all of the calcium in the water. Either add a 1/4 teaspoon per gallon of epsom salts or lime (both will effectively reduce the lockout or invest into a reverse osmosis water filter.
Mg can get locked-up by too much Ca, Cl or ammonium nitrogen. Don't overdo Mg or you'll lock up other nutrients.

:smoking: Pete, thanks for chiming in bud... But, where did you find this? Quite a bit of it is bollocks,... the pattern of progression varies enough to make no solid generalizations; "praying" for any nute's is pure BS; dolomite is far too slow acting to be useful for defc. treatment, even if it powdered,... it's chemistry is different from typical limestone, and takes longer to break down and release it's Ca/Mg and act as a speedy pH buffer,... it's better for long term usages because of this (maybe this is what he was referring too?).. And serious BS about Mg being locked out in 200 ppm water! Pure dogshit, clearly this person has no concept about how carbonate buffering in water works, much less anything about how ions are taken up by the plant, and competitive interference thereof... 200 ppm is at worst considered moderately hard water, and certainly not all of the Ca is in the form of free Ca++ cations- S!

 

[tripaholic88]

Trip, pardon the delay mate,... I think you had several things go wrong here, with that dry-out being a real kicker for this mess,...and also winging it w/o a TDS/EC meter, not knowing your input and run-off ppm's to see what's going in there. Coco is so unlike true soil, with it's peculiar CEC characteristics,... and if you didn't rinse and rebuffer after each use, this CEC balance was already iffy to begin with... coco is a Ca hog, and will preferentially bind it to itself until saturated, keeping it from the plant,.. it also has native K and Na in it, most of which is dealt with when aged and buffered by the manufacturer,... if the coco lost much of it's bound Ca++, it'll bind K+ in it's place,.. the K+ get's displaced by the Ca++ due to it's stronger charge, releasing the K+ as a free ion,... add a big boost of Ca++ and the bound K+ gets released, and you can end up with K toxicity from both the high nutrient content and what got booted off the coco particles... some of your symptoms (burned 'teeth" and margins) are K-tox' symptoms, along with the Ca defc. symptoms,... P likely got involved and locked too from that super low pH bounce! When the medium dries like that, the relative conc. of nute's goes up-- less water, less dilution, and when that happens, pH becomes TARFU acidic,... Flushing with coco is a different deal vs soil from my research.. I've seen recommendations for purging excess salt ions and resetting the buffering by using a specific formulation of flush water: use RO/DI water, add Ca-Mg (all carbonate based preferred, not the nitrate based) to get 150ppm, then make 150ppm of nute's solution and combine, pH to 6.0, and flush flush flush until the run-off is at or near the in-going pH and ppm's,...
... symptoms take time to halt after a correction, and damage in this case won't reverse,.. roots have been put through a beating! but if she's drinking again, then you saved her from the worst of the wipe-out! Are you using coco specific nutes? These are formulated to help deal with this coco CEC bizz,...


:smoking: Pete, thanks for chiming in bud... But, where did you find this? Quite a bit of it is bollocks,... the pattern of progression varies enough to make no solid generalizations; "praying" for any nute's is pure BS; dolomite is far too slow acting to be useful for defc. treatment, even if it powdered,... it's chemistry is different from typical limestone, and takes longer to break down and release it's Ca/Mg and act as a speedy pH buffer,... it's better for long term usages because of this (maybe this is what he was referring too?).. And serious BS about Mg being locked out in 200 ppm water! Pure dogshit, clearly this person has no concept about how carbonate buffering in water works, much less anything about how ions are taken up by the plant, and competitive interference thereof... 200 ppm is at worst considered moderately hard water, and certainly not all of the Ca is in the form of free Ca++ cations- S!

thank you brotha! yes this seems to be the problem but to be honest im on some Lsd right now and cant comprehend that all so i will come back to it when i am sober and suck in all this knowledge! thank you my friend

 

[Dr. Babnik]

Trip, pardon the delay mate,... I think you had several things go wrong here, with that dry-out being a real kicker for this mess,...and also winging it w/o a TDS/EC meter, not knowing your input and run-off ppm's to see what's going in there. Coco is so unlike true soil, with it's peculiar CEC characteristics,... and if you didn't rinse and rebuffer after each use, this CEC balance was already iffy to begin with... coco is a Ca hog, and will preferentially bind it to itself until saturated, keeping it from the plant,.. it also has native K and Na in it, most of which is dealt with when aged and buffered by the manufacturer,... if the coco lost much of it's bound Ca++, it'll bind K+ in it's place,.. the K+ get's displaced by the Ca++ due to it's stronger charge, releasing the K+ as a free ion,... add a big boost of Ca++ and the bound K+ gets released, and you can end up with K toxicity from both the high nutrient content and what got booted off the coco particles... some of your symptoms (burned 'teeth" and margins) are K-tox' symptoms, along with the Ca defc. symptoms,... P likely got involved and locked too from that super low pH bounce! When the medium dries like that, the relative conc. of nute's goes up-- less water, less dilution, and when that happens, pH becomes TARFU acidic,... Flushing with coco is a different deal vs soil from my research.. I've seen recommendations for purging excess salt ions and resetting the buffering by using a specific formulation of flush water: use RO/DI water, add Ca-Mg (all carbonate based preferred, not the nitrate based) to get 150ppm, then make 150ppm of nute's solution and combine, pH to 6.0, and flush flush flush until the run-off is at or near the in-going pH and ppm's,...
... symptoms take time to halt after a correction, and damage in this case won't reverse,.. roots have been put through a beating! but if she's drinking again, then you saved her from the worst of the wipe-out! Are you using coco specific nutes? These are formulated to help deal with this coco CEC bizz,...


:smoking: Pete, thanks for chiming in bud... But, where did you find this? Quite a bit of it is bollocks,... the pattern of progression varies enough to make no solid generalizations; "praying" for any nute's is pure BS; dolomite is far too slow acting to be useful for defc. treatment, even if it powdered,... it's chemistry is different from typical limestone, and takes longer to break down and release it's Ca/Mg and act as a speedy pH buffer,... it's better for long term usages because of this (maybe this is what he was referring too?).. And serious BS about Mg being locked out in 200 ppm water! Pure dogshit, clearly this person has no concept about how carbonate buffering in water works, much less anything about how ions are taken up by the plant, and competitive interference thereof... 200 ppm is at worst considered moderately hard water, and certainly not all of the Ca is in the form of free Ca++ cations- S!

Thank you for a nice lesson on coco chemistry!
I know what I will do; stick to good old mud.

Keeping coco perfect seems require a degree in chemical engineering. Is rockwool as complicated as coco? I have been playing with the idea of trying a Grodan slab like this:

Any experience or comments to this system?

 

[tripaholic88]

Trip, pardon the delay mate,... I think you had several things go wrong here, with that dry-out being a real kicker for this mess,...and also winging it w/o a TDS/EC meter, not knowing your input and run-off ppm's to see what's going in there. Coco is so unlike true soil, with it's peculiar CEC characteristics,... and if you didn't rinse and rebuffer after each use, this CEC balance was already iffy to begin with... coco is a Ca hog, and will preferentially bind it to itself until saturated, keeping it from the plant,.. it also has native K and Na in it, most of which is dealt with when aged and buffered by the manufacturer,... if the coco lost much of it's bound Ca++, it'll bind K+ in it's place,.. the K+ get's displaced by the Ca++ due to it's stronger charge, releasing the K+ as a free ion,... add a big boost of Ca++ and the bound K+ gets released, and you can end up with K toxicity from both the high nutrient content and what got booted off the coco particles... some of your symptoms (burned 'teeth" and margins) are K-tox' symptoms, along with the Ca defc. symptoms,... P likely got involved and locked too from that super low pH bounce! When the medium dries like that, the relative conc. of nute's goes up-- less water, less dilution, and when that happens, pH becomes TARFU acidic,... Flushing with coco is a different deal vs soil from my research.. I've seen recommendations for purging excess salt ions and resetting the buffering by using a specific formulation of flush water: use RO/DI water, add Ca-Mg (all carbonate based preferred, not the nitrate based) to get 150ppm, then make 150ppm of nute's solution and combine, pH to 6.0, and flush flush flush until the run-off is at or near the in-going pH and ppm's,...
... symptoms take time to halt after a correction, and damage in this case won't reverse,.. roots have been put through a beating! but if she's drinking again, then you saved her from the worst of the wipe-out! Are you using coco specific nutes? These are formulated to help deal with this coco CEC bizz,...


:smoking: Pete, thanks for chiming in bud... But, where did you find this? Quite a bit of it is bollocks,... the pattern of progression varies enough to make no solid generalizations; "praying" for any nute's is pure BS; dolomite is far too slow acting to be useful for defc. treatment, even if it powdered,... it's chemistry is different from typical limestone, and takes longer to break down and release it's Ca/Mg and act as a speedy pH buffer,... it's better for long term usages because of this (maybe this is what he was referring too?).. And serious BS about Mg being locked out in 200 ppm water! Pure dogshit, clearly this person has no concept about how carbonate buffering in water works, much less anything about how ions are taken up by the plant, and competitive interference thereof... 200 ppm is at worst considered moderately hard water, and certainly not all of the Ca is in the form of free Ca++ cations- S!

ok so now being sober it makes alot of sence and i believe that is what def happened.. i didnt re buffer the coco and this is its 3rd grow(i planned on throwing it in my garden when this grow is done and i already recieved my new coco for next run) so that must be what happened... my ppms are at about 800 in my res right now but i believe my meter may be off and there is no screw to alibrate it UGH! its also saying my tap ppm is 69-70 so thats not bad and a ph of 7.3.
the effected girl is drinking again but i dont see much bud growth unfortunately.. i dont know if she will recover or not, she may become BHO! this is by far the worst problem ive had so far in my 6 months of growing and i figured something was bound to happen