Super autos, what's the deal?

[Left]

Like the title says, what is a super auto?

I have read:
Czech ruderalis, gives a taller starting point than lowryder.
Auto backcrossed to photo once.
F1 of photo x auto.
Auto backcrossed to photo or f2 and worked back to auto, repeatedly.
Any concensus?

Any version of an f1 auto x photo makes little sense, that would be a photo. Earlier flowering maybe, like a sweet seeds fast version.
So I reckon a bigger ruderalis as a starting point is more likely.
Another likely explanation in my opinion is working the auto over several generations, lots of outcrosses and backcrosses to photo and selecting taller and slower auto phenos.

 

[TreyDogg]

Could just a marketing strategy, super makes you think better instantly.

 

[Son of Hobbes]

The breeder Stitch was the one that coined the term originally (and it was in fact to help him sell his genetics at the time.) What he didn't know is that he was on to something lol; that you could cross ruderalis with sativa/indica NOT with the intention of creating an autoflowering hybrid, but instead to create a photoperiod that has ruderal characteristics (like very fast growth, fast maturation to pre-flower, etc.) The suggestion for super autos was to drop them down to something like a 12/12 light schedule to properly finish them out (which makes them NOT an autoflower.)

I've heard the term "semi-auto" also used to describe these or even "Fast flowering photos."

 

[Left]

Thanks Hobbes, that's how I initially interpreted Stitch/Flash super autos as well. An f1 cross of sativa x auto. Which makes them photo.. A significant contribution and a discovery useful to many growers, but misleading in regards to autoflowering. They're just like the fast versions of Sweet Seeds, then? If super autos still finish outdoors in less than four months from sprout, it would be awesome, but I've read reports of some super autos taking 5 months total and often not flowering without 12/12, so that makes them less ideal for me outdoors in a northern climate..
It is the concensus then, that stitch/flash superautos are not autos?
What is the difference between a fast version, semi auto and a super auto? Any specific details that are well known, as in type of auto used, and the breeding sequence(f1 of auto x photo, photo x auto, or backross to photo)
Could any f1 of sativa x auto in theory be classed as a super auto?

 

[CannaDaTaBiz]

The breeder Stitch was the one that coined the term originally (and it was in fact to help him sell his genetics at the time.) What he didn't know is that he was on to something lol; that you could cross ruderalis with sativa/indica NOT with the intention of creating an autoflowering hybrid, but instead to create a photoperiod that has ruderal characteristics (like very fast growth, fast maturation to pre-flower, etc.) The suggestion for super autos was to drop them down to something like a 12/12 light schedule to properly finish them out (which makes them NOT an autoflower.)

I've heard the term "semi-auto" also used to describe these or even "Fast flowering photos."

This sort of strains that are a mix between ruderalis and drug varieties are old. All classic danish outdoor strains have been these since at least 70's and there are some evidences that this sort of plants have been grown in nordic countries for hundreds of years. Unless the main nordic crop was autoflowering with some potency already. Basically regular photos cant finish fast enough in the north what ever you try to do, but it is unclear if the main crop had much if any potency in it. However there are old tales and instructions on how to make seedless buds for best medicine etc. that point out that even if the main crop did not have potency, there were also some plants with potency grown. If they were not full blown autoflowers(if they were, they would had likely been the main crop), then they must had been these sort of fast varieties that are mix between main crop and drug varieties.

Its impossible to say what really went on in the past, as most evidences have been destroyed and truths buried. But we do know that in places where regular photos cant grow, people grew autoflowering something which either had THC in it or there were hybrids bewteen the autoflowering main crop and drug varieties brought likely from south of russia. However i suspect that the main crop was a mix between autoflowering hemp and photoperiodic drug varieties and its hard to say if it was either extremely early or auto. Also im sure there have been different varieties in different places of scandinavia and western russia, some more potent than others, maybe not all of them had any drug varieties mixed in or were backcrossed more to hemp varieties.

As far as i know, Finola strain, which is an autoflowering hemp has its origins in some of these old northern hemp varieties that were cultivated for fabrics, rope, food, medicine etc. from norway to northern parts of russia. It however almost completely lacks THC and i dont know if its something that never was there or something that has been bred out.


Anyways my point is that even if Stitch had coined this term, this is a old thing that has been known for decades or possibly centuries before Stitch figured it out. Like if you live in scandinavia or close enough and you have grown weed outside, you have known about this stuff already since forever, even if that term is new.

 

[ManWithWrench]

Could just a marketing strategy, super makes you think better instantly.

Should I change my name to SuperManWithWrench or ManWithSuperWrench?

 

[TreyDogg]

Super man with super wrench, that way you're more like thor and his hammer.

 

[WildBill]

Interesting conversation, but currently over my head. LOL!

 

[karlkutta]

Should I change my name to SuperManWithWrench or ManWithSuperWrench?

Interesting conversation, but currently over my head. LOL!

how about "WrenchWithManSuper"

besides that, i dont know, @Left is looking for an Auto that gets bigger, faster, with lots of yields, takes 2 months tops? or what is the point?

 

[Left]

Thanks for inputs, guys.
Not sure if I interpret your post correctly, @karlkutta, but I guess both. I am looking for an auto that is huge and fast, and I also wonder what is the point with super autos, stitch's in particular. It seems it is not auto if it is just one cross between auto and photo. So the name is misleading. Superautos should be renamed fast versions.
There are now already autos that grow big and yield huge. Those might be a lot better for outdoors than a superauto that yields the same but takes twice as long..

I wonder about the details in the breeding as well. A nice photo crossed just once might be quite uniform pheno-wise, as it is an f1.
You cannot breed it to f2 though, without getting a lot of variation and need for selection. The f2s will be a mix of auto, semi and photo. And probably not the same hybrid vigour.? And it is no longer a superauto. So the superauto seeds for sale must be all f1s, I guess.
I've read that a fast version, like maybe those from sweet seeds, is a cross between photo and auto, worked to auto, then the auto is backcrossed to the photo, making it similarly to the superautos, an f1 of photo and auto. As there is breeding to further generations involved before the backcross, I guess they can work the pheno a bit, but they lose hybrid vigour?
I see two advantages of f1 between photo and auto.
Slightly increased yield compared to regular auto.
Possible to keep clones.
Disadvantages:
Long flowering time for northern outdoor grow.
Must stay f1.