Switching to a fully organic grow and could use some advice

[Stilg7]

Hey everyone, the other night I went to hydrate a brick of coco to get ready for my current grow and I stopped myself. I thought to myself do I want to go this route again? Undecided I put the brick down and went to my computer to do a little research. Now I'm here and just as the title states I'm looking to change some things up going into the new year (like so many of us) and my growing medium is one of them! I have just about two years of growing under my belt and all of those grows were done in coco coir. Over that time I've had a few harvests that I was quite content with but most of them would leave me a little disappointed and wanting more. I think those results were more operator error than anything but the tipping point for me is the watering. Don't get me wrong the fact that coco coir can't be over watered is one of the best things about it. But I don't have an automated watering system so hand watering has become unbelievably cumbersome and to be honest I'm over it . Not to say coco coir is a bad growing medium at all but I'm starting to realize maybe it's just not for me and how I would like to cultivate cannabis.

Anyways, I'm looking to make the move to fully organic grows going forward. The main thing that is attracting me to switching is watering with just plain old water, ph'd of course. Not only using plain water but also watering way less frequently. The simplicity seems like it would allow me to begin to enjoy growing again as much as I used to when I first started. Eager to switch I made a trip today to my local grow shop. Before I went in I was initially looking to pick up some FoxFarms Coco Loco along with a bag of super soil. I was planning on using the "just add water" method that growweedeasy provides on their website. Unfortunately they didn't have any super soils on hand so if I wanted to go that route I'd have to order a bag from amazon and wait for it to ship or buy everything there and make my own. After looking into creating my own super soil I decided it seemed like too much of an undertaking for me at this time so ultimately I eliminated that option. Another reason why the timing is bad is because currently I have two seeds that have already germinated and are in jiffy pellets ready to be put into some kind of medium that they can call home. A little disappointed about the super soil situation and without a backup plan I headed home to research some more. Not having much time I knew I needed to figure something out and make a purchase today. What I gathered from a couple online growers was you can get away with a mixture of FoxFarms soils. The growers I got this information from were Professor Autoflower (even though he uses nutes) and 420 Scene on youtube. And this grower from reddit-

Out of those 3 I provided I'm leaning more toward 420 Scene and the reddit grower's advice. 420 Scene suggests using a mix of 50/50 Happy Frog with Ocean Forest on the top half of the pots and Strawberry fields with about 20% perlite added to it on the bottom half. The person from reddit suggests a 60/40 mix with Happy Frog being the 60% on top and Strawberry Fields the 40% on the bottom. They then go on to also suggest top dressing with a 50/50 mix of the Happyfrog and Strawberry Fields around day 45 or so. After learning about these methods I went back to my local grow shop and purchased a bag of Happy Frog, Ocean Forest, Strawberry Fields and Coco Loco. I bought the Coco Loco just in case the answers I get from this posts change my mind to go with the growweedeasy "just add water" method.

Now with all of that said my biggest question of many would be has anyone had really great results using any of these methods I've mentioned? What size smart pots would you recommend? I only grow Mephisto autos and the tent I grow in is a 2x4x6. Mephisto themselves seem to suggest to use pots right around 3 gal and up to 5 gal for bigger strains. But other things I've read say to use 5 gal pots or nothing smaller than 7 gal ones. How does Fox Farms Strawberry Fields compare to super soils? I ask that question because out of all of the methods I researched the bottom half of the pots are supposed to be filled with super soil or Strawberry Fields. Also, what type of water source would you guys recommend? I have pretty hard city tap water that is treated with chlorine but it does not have chloramines in it. I also have an RO system and the spring water I have around me in stores is called Crystal Geyser. Out of those three which should I use, even if it's a mixture of two? Also, do I have to use Earth Juice ph up and down to adjust my water's ph? Would using my GH ph up and down be that harmful to my soil? Last question I can think of at the moment would be what is the ideal ph to shoot for? I've read to keep it between 6.0-6.3 and then I've also read to keep it between 6.5-7.0.

I'll end this post here because I think that pretty much covers the bases for me and if I could get some answers to those questions I would be well on my way with my first organic soil grow. Thanks in advance for any and all information and most of all I hope everyone has a wonderful and safe holiday!

 

[Mañ'O'Green]

@Stilg7 Since a cannabis tap root can grow 9 inches in three days and will be in the bottom of the pot in 7 to 10 days and the laterals (feeders) are not far behind, why do you want to layer soil? Not that it is likely to happen with what you suggest but the way water percolates through soil dictates that when the water meets a new strata the top layer must be saturated before it will move to the next layer. This can cause dry spots in the soil. As well as anearobic microbes in the saturated layer. The idea that roots will grow into the soil where it has nutrients it needs based on maturity is not valid. Roots just grow where there is air and water. Then they absorb the nutrients they want from the entire root system not just the ones from the "strawberry layer".

Take the FFOF, FFHF and the SF and just mix it all together. Save a fist size ball to plant the seeds in. Just make a dent in the soil with your fist and put SF in. This is to start the seed in. FFOF & FFHF can be a bit too hot for germination. A water only grow for one Autoflowering plant is asking a lot from 5 gallons of FF. 7 Gallons might make it if FF made the soil right in the first place.

Watering is where you will gain some down time compared to coco or any hydro.

What you need to learn about watering will come with practice. Here are the basic rules: Never let the soil dry out. Soil and or coco can become hydrophobic if allowed to dry. This means it repels water. This in turn will create dry pockets in the soil and the roots and microbes will die there. If your soil - coco have accidentally dried out use a surfactant to help re-wet it. I like yucca powder. Don't let soil remain soggy by watering too much too often. Root rot, damping off, molds, fungus gnats and other problems start in soggy soil. When you do water water the entire pot. How to learn when to water starts before you plant the seed. Fill your container with fresh soil/coco and weigh it (heft it) this is the lightest weight and consider it a dry pot. Now slowly water until the soil/coco will no longer absorb the water and run-off begins; weigh the pot (heft it) this is the maximum water, the wettest the pot can get. The difference between wettest and driest is the maximum water weight, for ease of explanation lets just say the water weighs 20 pounds. When the pot loses 10 pounds (half of the water weight) it is time to water again. There is an art to watering. Coco can be fertigate many times a day if you want to continually present fresh balanced nutrients to the roots. Begin fertigation 2 hours after lights on and end it 2 hours before lights out.

The choice for the source of your water really depends on how good your tap water is. There is no sense in spending money for water or wasting the drain off from RO if your tap is ok. If the PPM of your starting water is between 80 - 150. I would use the tap, just aerate it overnight. I would PH the water to 6.4 for this soil mix.

Have a nutrient system on hand as a plan B in case the soil runs out of nutrients.

For future grows and I my opinion the least time consuming and demanding TLS in an earth box. I am a hydro grower now because my bad back cannot move a pot of dirt. Pumps do all of my heavy lifting.

 

[Tom Bombadil]

Im working with wormy 3 year old ffof/castings/rice hulls reamended with buildasoil.com craft blend, buildaflower, azomite, high p guano, silica powder, insect frass and some occasional dolomite sprinkles . When the plants are done, i dump the pots back into the storage tote, roots, extra fan leaves and all, then add a few things and let the worms work their magic. Occasionally ill add some fresh ffof and some apples and banana peels to the soil totes. worms love having sex on fruit scraps. A clump of seedling mix in the center of the pot for germination is best.
The only bottles i use are full of mollases

 

[AJrexxx]

Hey everyone, the other night I went to hydrate a brick of coco to get ready for my current grow and I stopped myself. I thought to myself do I want to go this route again? Undecided I put the brick down and went to my computer to do a little research. Now I'm here and just as the title states I'm looking to change some things up going into the new year (like so many of us) and my growing medium is one of them! I have just about two years of growing under my belt and all of those grows were done in coco coir. Over that time I've had a few harvests that I was quite content with but most of them would leave me a little disappointed and wanting more. I think those results were more operator error than anything but the tipping point for me is the watering. Don't get me wrong the fact that coco coir can't be over watered is one of the best things about it. But I don't have an automated watering system so hand watering has become unbelievably cumbersome and to be honest I'm over it . Not to say coco coir is a bad growing medium at all but I'm starting to realize maybe it's just not for me and how I would like to cultivate cannabis.

Anyways, I'm looking to make the move to fully organic grows going forward. The main thing that is attracting me to switching is watering with just plain old water, ph'd of course. Not only using plain water but also watering way less frequently. The simplicity seems like it would allow me to begin to enjoy growing again as much as I used to when I first started. Eager to switch I made a trip today to my local grow shop. Before I went in I was initially looking to pick up some FoxFarms Coco Loco along with a bag of super soil. I was planning on using the "just add water" method that growweedeasy provides on their website. Unfortunately they didn't have any super soils on hand so if I wanted to go that route I'd have to order a bag from amazon and wait for it to ship or buy everything there and make my own. After looking into creating my own super soil I decided it seemed like too much of an undertaking for me at this time so ultimately I eliminated that option. Another reason why the timing is bad is because currently I have two seeds that have already germinated and are in jiffy pellets ready to be put into some kind of medium that they can call home. A little disappointed about the super soil situation and without a backup plan I headed home to research some more. Not having much time I knew I needed to figure something out and make a purchase today. What I gathered from a couple online growers was you can get away with a mixture of FoxFarms soils. The growers I got this information from were Professor Autoflower (even though he uses nutes) and 420 Scene on youtube. And this grower from reddit-

Out of those 3 I provided I'm leaning more toward 420 Scene and the reddit grower's advice. 420 Scene suggests using a mix of 50/50 Happy Frog with Ocean Forest on the top half of the pots and Strawberry fields with about 20% perlite added to it on the bottom half. The person from reddit suggests a 60/40 mix with Happy Frog being the 60% on top and Strawberry Fields the 40% on the bottom. They then go on to also suggest top dressing with a 50/50 mix of the Happyfrog and Strawberry Fields around day 45 or so. After learning about these methods I went back to my local grow shop and purchased a bag of Happy Frog, Ocean Forest, Strawberry Fields and Coco Loco. I bought the Coco Loco just in case the answers I get from this posts change my mind to go with the growweedeasy "just add water" method.

Now with all of that said my biggest question of many would be has anyone had really great results using any of these methods I've mentioned? What size smart pots would you recommend? I only grow Mephisto autos and the tent I grow in is a 2x4x6. Mephisto themselves seem to suggest to use pots right around 3 gal and up to 5 gal for bigger strains. But other things I've read say to use 5 gal pots or nothing smaller than 7 gal ones. How does Fox Farms Strawberry Fields compare to super soils? I ask that question because out of all of the methods I researched the bottom half of the pots are supposed to be filled with super soil or Strawberry Fields. Also, what type of water source would you guys recommend? I have pretty hard city tap water that is treated with chlorine but it does not have chloramines in it. I also have an RO system and the spring water I have around me in stores is called Crystal Geyser. Out of those three which should I use, even if it's a mixture of two? Also, do I have to use Earth Juice ph up and down to adjust my water's ph? Would using my GH ph up and down be that harmful to my soil? Last question I can think of at the moment would be what is the ideal ph to shoot for? I've read to keep it between 6.0-6.3 and then I've also read to keep it between 6.5-7.0.

I'll end this post here because I think that pretty much covers the bases for me and if I could get some answers to those questions I would be well on my way with my first organic soil grow. Thanks in advance for any and all information and most of all I hope everyone has a wonderful and safe holiday!

If you look in my signature you will see "AJs Land of Random Thoughts" on page three I talk about recipes for soil and amending living soil and what I do. It is water only no PH. It is what I fell into doing after I was done with coco. All the pictures in that thread are grown in 10 gallon living soil pots. If you have any questions after reading that let me know.

PS I would not use Happy Frog or Fox Farms soil or super soil for that matter (you can easily make better). Super soil works, but it adds a layer of complication and that is what you sound like you are trying to get away from. In my opinion super soil is better for photos as keeping you plant in a smaller container till it is ready does not affect your harvest.

 

[Stilg7]

@Stilg7 Since a cannabis tap root can grow 9 inches in three days and will be in the bottom of the pot in 7 to 10 days and the laterals (feeders) are not far behind, why do you want to layer soil? Not that it is likely to happen with what you suggest but the way water percolates through soil dictates that when the water meets a new strata the top layer must be saturated before it will move to the next layer. This can cause dry spots in the soil. As well as anearobic microbes in the saturated layer. The idea that roots will grow into the soil where it has nutrients it needs based on maturity is not valid. Roots just grow where there is air and water. Then they absorb the nutrients they want from the entire root system not just the ones from the "strawberry layer".

Take the FFOF, FFHF and the SF and just mix it all together. Save a fist size ball to plant the seeds in. Just make a dent in the soil with your fist and put SF in. This is to start the seed in. FFOF & FFHF can be a bit too hot for germination. A water only grow for one Autoflowering plant is asking a lot from 5 gallons of FF. 7 Gallons might make it if FF made the soil right in the first place.

Watering is where you will gain some down time compared to coco or any hydro.

What you need to learn about watering will come with practice. Here are the basic rules: Never let the soil dry out. Soil and or coco can become hydrophobic if allowed to dry. This means it repels water. This in turn will create dry pockets in the soil and the roots and microbes will die there. If your soil - coco have accidentally dried out use a surfactant to help re-wet it. I like yucca powder. Don't let soil remain soggy by watering too much too often. Root rot, damping off, molds, fungus gnats and other problems start in soggy soil. When you do water water the entire pot. How to learn when to water starts before you plant the seed. Fill your container with fresh soil/coco and weigh it (heft it) this is the lightest weight and consider it a dry pot. Now slowly water until the soil/coco will no longer absorb the water and run-off begins; weigh the pot (heft it) this is the maximum water, the wettest the pot can get. The difference between wettest and driest is the maximum water weight, for ease of explanation lets just say the water weighs 20 pounds. When the pot loses 10 pounds (half of the water weight) it is time to water again. There is an art to watering. Coco can be fertigate many times a day if you want to continually present fresh balanced nutrients to the roots. Begin fertigation 2 hours after lights on and end it 2 hours before lights out.

The choice for the source of your water really depends on how good your tap water is. There is no sense in spending money for water or wasting the drain off from RO if your tap is ok. If the PPM of your starting water is between 80 - 150. I would use the tap, just aerate it overnight. I would PH the water to 6.4 for this soil mix.

Have a nutrient system on hand as a plan B in case the soil runs out of nutrients.

For future grows and I my opinion the least time consuming and demanding TLS in an earth box. I am a hydro grower now because my bad back cannot move a pot of dirt. Pumps do all of my heavy lifting.

I only brought up layering the soil because that is what the growers I mentioned do and they seemed to have pretty good results growing organically.

Thanks for the watering tips. I feel like that is going to be my biggest learning curve going from coco to soil.

As far as the ppm's of my water sources; my tap comes in right around 185, my ro is about 10, and the bottled spring water in my area is roughly 150. Would you suggest using one over the other? Or if I were to mix my RO and tap would it be better to be on the lower end of the ppm range you mentioned? Or does it not really matter as long as it's in that range?

You mentioned having a plan b nutrient system just incase but I really don't want to go with synthetic nutes at all even though I do have plenty of them handy. Would I be able get away with top dressing with the 50/50 HF and SF halfway through the grow like the guy from reddit says he does? That or maybe water every so often with Recharge or some other tea?

Is there a reason why you suggest PHing this particular soil to 6.4? I'm not questioning you at all but I would like to know for my on knowledge and for anyone else who might stumble upon this thread.

I'll have to look a little more into the whole earth box thing and potentially use that for a later grow. Thanks as always for the advice!

 

[Stilg7]

Im working with wormy 3 year old ffof/castings/rice hulls reamended with buildasoil.com craft blend, buildaflower, azomite, high p guano, silica powder, insect frass and some occasional dolomite sprinkles . When the plants are done, i dump the pots back into the storage tote, roots, extra fan leaves and all, then add a few things and let the worms work their magic. Occasionally ill add some fresh ffof and some apples and banana peels to the soil totes. worms love having sex on fruit scraps. A clump of seedling mix in the center of the pot for germination is best.
The only bottles i use are full of mollases

This is eventually where I would like to get. To have the knowledge about all of these different ingredients and be able to play around and make different mixtures and let nature do her thing. Unfortunately I don't know nearly enough, it being cold outside now I don't have the space (my home is on a slab, no basement) and my girls already making their way into the seedling stage make it tough for me to go this route at the moment. Thanks for the info though I will definitely take this into consideration going further into growing organically.

 

[Stilg7]

If you look in my signature you will see "AJs Land of Random Thoughts" on page three I talk about recipes for soil and amending living soil and what I do. It is water only no PH. It is what I fell into doing after I was done with coco. All the pictures in that thread are grown in 10 gallon living soil pots. If you have any questions after reading that let me know.

PS I would not use Happy Frog or Fox Farms soil or super soil for that matter (you can easily make better). Super soil works, but it adds a layer of complication and that is what you sound like you are trying to get away from. In my opinion super soil is better for photos as keeping you plant in a smaller container till it is ready does not affect your harvest.

After taking a look at your post I see that you are suggesting something similar to what Tom Bombadil did. Again, I would love to be able to do something like this but I needed something quick, easy, and cheap. Only because time is of the essence.

Would you be able to go into a little more detail as to why I shouldn't use any FF soils or super soil? From what I read by the people who use those mediums say that it's water only and simple. Their results seem to be really good to boot. I'm not trying to question you but I would like to know your reasoning simply to gain more knowledge. I only paid $20 a bag for the soils. Is it because I can just make a more suitable soil for autoflowers for less? Again, I'm not dismissing your advice I'm just in a time crunch and need to get these girls into something asap! The taproot on one of them is about to come out of the bottom of it's jiffy pellet

 

[Suki]

This is eventually where I would like to get. To have the knowledge about all of these different ingredients and be able to play around and make different mixtures and let nature do her thing. Unfortunately I don't know nearly enough, it being cold outside now I don't have the space (my home is on a slab, no basement) and my girls already making their way into the seedling stage make it tough for me to go this route at the moment. Thanks for the info though I will definitely take this into consideration going further into growing organically.

Check out the build a soil take and bake kit! I've got some of that cooking currently, if you start a batch of soil now it will be ready in time for your next grow for sure. Whatever you use you're going to have to let it cook so for a water only TLS you've got to plan ahead a bit.

 

[Stilg7]

I want to mention real fast that just because I'm replying to a particular person it doesn't mean anyone else can't chime in on some of these topics and questions I have. Any information I can gather is always greatly appreciated from all growers alike!

 

[draxcel]

I m following this upclose.I am using biobizz all nute line and their soil,anyhow having medium-low result being me a totally idiot.Sorry for the character I don't know what the hell I clicked on my phone!
I Am trying to switch away from bottled nutes,yes biobizz Is organic but,the doses are not right in their feeding schedule and It Is so frustrating with my autos.