Lighting TOPled The Manual.

[Atlantian]

Hi again, just wanted check something out with the team. One bean sprouted no sign of the other. Bounced the light for 2 days while it was rooting, now she is in her dwc home with the full mars 11 1200 beating pleasantly on her beautiful deep green stretching arms at the height of 110 over her head. Should I be a little closer?
Thanks for your help with this first medical attempt.
aty

 

[Weedman30]

Id start at 70-80 cm for first week then drop down to around 40-50 cm veg 25-35cm flower

 

[Atlantian]

Id start at 70-80 cm for first week then drop down to around 40-50 cm veg 25-35cm flower

Thanks Weedman, will lower them. Dropped two more today so waiting them to pop in the paper towels.
Aty

 

[Gertrude]

Has anyone used the marshydro 300w thinking of getting one just as a veg light?Thanks

 

[Dr. Frog]

Hey Gertrude, this is the first time I've seen MarsHydro. They are basically the exact same lights from Topled, just slightly different branding (plus stickers!). They seem to sell veg and bloom configurations, from what I saw on their page. I use a 300-380 watt drawing "regular" spectrum panel from Topled (Mars II 700) and I love it!

I'm inexperienced, but on my second grow, I produced a monster Auto Blueberry (August BOM nomination, woo!). The light is very powerful, and reliable. I'm 7 months into owning this panel with ZERO problems. I literally don't know of a better light at this price point.

Praise asside, I couldn't figure out how much MarsHydro charges for their lights. But they seem to be Topled with a new sticker, so it may be more expensive than just ordering direct. Or, it could just be another sales front for Topled. They seem to have a few different seller pages.

Just search topledgrowlight and you'll find their main website. Then you can compare prices.

 

[Gertrude]

Hi Dr.frog thanks for your reply well i did get the 300w unit with a draw of 170w and am pretty impressed with the build quality and yes they are the older 3w top leds and think i got a bargain for £86.00. i have gn ms6's already and am waiting for there new units but needed more lights till these come out!Having said that from what ive seen and heard the top led's do a good job and a great price too

 

[mauricem00]

Great start to the thread guys thanks,I'm hoping it will draw new members in.

One tip I can give you on resin production under lights with no UV is to buy some Advances Nutrients Bud Factor X,I know its expensive but it lasts forever as you only need to use it in the last 2 weeks of feed. It works by tricking the plant into thinking its under attack and the plant will produce more resin. UV increases strength by stressing the plant too.

wouldn't it be simpler to just add a small reptile bulb during the last two weeks of flowering http://www.ebay.com/itm/Exo-Terra-1...751?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item417d2cb367. some growers like to flush during the last two weeks to avoid chemical taste

 

[mauricem00]

Actually the Mars II regular spectrum doesn't include any UVB diodes. IIRC, it's 2 kinds of blues, reds, and whites plus a few infrared diodes.

I think it's good that they don't include UVB. From what I've read, it can damage your plant early on. So unless it has a switch for those diodes on the panel, I wouldn't want to use it.

Someday I would like to supplement my lighting with a source of UVB. All I've really seen in my shallow search on the topic are people using reptile lights for short time periods during the bloom phase. I'm on board with the notion that UV stress triggers the plant to make more/stronger glands, I just don't know what amounts and timings of UV are beneficial without actually harming the plants.

Infrared, on the other hand, is known to be directly tied with the growth pattern a plant experiences.

http://www.cannabisculture.com/articles/4576.html

Not the best reference, but gives a good explanation of how infrared signals a plant to grow in certain ways.

The short version:
If red light = IR light, then less stretch.
If red light < IR light, then more stretch.

IR also tells the plant there is not enough light to flower. several studies have been able to turn flowering on and off in vegetables using red (on) and IR (off) and the Emerson effect only occurs in the absence of deep blue light (430-440nm) so the value of IR is questionable.

 

[mauricem00]

I've got to firmly disagree here with your recommendation. Those lux levels you recommended may be great for more traditional light sources like HID, but when talking LEDs, PAR is the name of the game. I don't mean to speak as if you didn't know this or what I'm about to explain already, but it may be useful for those new to LED light sources.

Lumen/lux only applies to applications where human vision is concerned. We can still use lux if we know our light source's spectrum. This is why such recommendations exist for HID light systems for indoor gardening.

As humans, we are much more perceptive to light in the green spectrum.

Here's an example:

3 light sources, all being driven at the same output level or wattage. 3 colors: red, green, and blue. Our eyes would perceive the green source as "brightest." That's just how human sight has developed. Our usual tools like lumen and lux measurements therefore are also more sensitive to green light.

Plants are practically the opposite. Green light is hardly used by plants. You could try to use the green light from the example to grow a plant based on its higher lux rating, but it wont do much without the reds/blues that a plant needs.

So it gets even rougher when you consider how spectrums from various LED panels differ. There are models for veg, bloom, full spectrum, plus each company's own little twist like diodes in white, IR, and UV flavors. Even if all their PAR readings were the same, their lumen/lux readings could vary wildly.

Therefore, it's nearly impossible to recommend adequate light levels in lux from an LED source.

However, you can still use lux readings to get a general feel for the RELATIVE light intensities at different heights/locations/orientations in the grow space. So while the numbers mean practically NOTHING to plants at face value, it allows the grower to compare the values proportionally. Doing so may help to see how their LED lense angles perform, or how their reflective surfaces behave. Maybe you'll even find a hotspot. A hot spot's lux number may not be all that high, but if it's proportionally much higher than other readings in a similar area, you'll know.

considering the way the lux and lumen scales are weighted it seems they would be useless for determining the amount of led power plants need.radiant power seems to be a better way to judge different types of plant light.there are online calculators that give a reasonable approximation of radiant power using lux or lumen output and type of light and 75 watts per sq.ft. would definitely be more than optimal with leds.you would do much better using that power to cover a larger area and grow more plants clearly a point of diminishing returns is reached at this power level

 

[Dr. Frog]

considering the way the lux and lumen scales are weighted it seems they would be useless for determining the amount of led power plants need.radiant power seems to be a better way to judge different types of plant light.there are online calculators that give a reasonable approximation of radiant power using lux or lumen output and type of light and 75 watts per sq.ft. would definitely be more than optimal with leds.you would do much better using that power to cover a larger area and grow more plants View attachment 392247 clearly a point of diminishing returns is reached at this power level

Hmm, radiant power could be useful if the calculator can separately calculate each band of light as being it's own lux source. Seems like you'd need a special sensor to isolate the differing frequencies so they could be adjusted for their relevance in par or radiant power. Still though, lux based measurements are gonna be rough.

But you *can* use a simple lux meter to see differences in relative intensity across different samples. It can't be used to compare panels. I just use it to see how light intensity dissipates with distance and to see how reflective surfaces affect the growing space.

Do you have a link to any cool calculators? Now I wanna try it.