Anyone use Green planet dual fuel & pro-cal with coco coir? Or can give advice?

[KootenayFullyAutomatic]

Hey guys, new to the forum so hopefully not crossing any lines asking this here.

So, I have the entire dual fuel line up from green planet + their pro-cal for cal/mag supplement.
Running canna coco in 3 gal fabric pots.
I’ve had good luck running photo periods with these nutrients in Promix HP, wanted to switch to coco for my autoflowers and am nervous how I should run these nutrients.

Should I cut the feed chart in half? Say follow the feed chart, instead of whatever it says for ml per 1L (like the feed chart suggest) I do per 2L. And how do the ECs look? I’ve seen that canna suggests not to irrigate with a solution lower than 0.8 EC ever, and the week 1 of this feed chart is suggesting 0.4 EC so I’m a little confused on how to continue.

Also if I have to run half of what the feed chart suggests, should I do the same with the pro-cal? Only info I’ve found on how to run it is just that they say to run 1.25ml/L or 4.5ml per gallon in conjunction with your standard feed schedule. But I assume that will raise ppms over what the feed chart suggests, so then I’m back to whether or not I should cut the feed chart back at all.

(Attached images regarding feed chart and pro-cal information)

-appreciate any feed back

 

[Autofire]

Weeks 1, 2 and 3 look fine. You probably want to aim for an EC of about 1.2 for the whole grow, most tos are very light feeders. I'm guessing that the liquid weight is some kind of pk for flower. You could probably dose that at about 1ml per litre and just drop to the base a bit so you stay around 1.2 or 1.3.

The main ingredient in the Massive additive is triacontanol. This growth promotor is incredibly cheap if you source it elsewhere and is a lot more effective as a folair spray than watered into the root zone.

If you are using tap water you probably don't need the Cal mag unless you see a deficiency.

 

[budwise]

Mate if im being honest, don't let any of the specifics chafe your balls. This is the way i would go about it. looking at the feed chart say for dual feul one. i see a minimum dose of 0.5ml per L and a maximum dose of 1.5ml per L. therefore i would start at a quarter of the maximum dose which is say 0.4ml per L approx (again dont be anal about it).

treat any base formulations like that just start at 1/4 of maximum on the feed chart with your autos your just trying to find a baseline feed you can feed the seedling that you know won't burn it, so you can attempt to optimize up from there. going from 1/4 strength to half strength within say a 3 week period. but always watch the plant's posture for droopiness and its tone for slight yellowing you may need to increment up faster if you see these signs.

with additives: identify which of the ingredients have NPKs and which don't.

for the ones that don't add these at half strength from the very very start of the grow. i don't care what it is (if you only have a small amount add at 1/4 so it lasts the entire run).

for the ones that have any additional NPKs just wait untill bloom before you add it in. that way you can let the plants bloom out on a nice simplistic feed, then add all the complicated boosters in at bloom because by this stage you should have all the base nutrients dialed in properly making it an deal stage to slowly introduce other additives again starting at 1/4 strength and slowly dialing it up.


My main advice is to be extremely vigilant on weeks 1 and 2. because the seedling is still partly running on its internal reserves if your feeding only 1/4 strength the seedling may only look healthy because its running on internal stores as soon as these run out your going to run into a deficiency quickly so know that if you see the leaves drooping or the tone lightening up be quick to respond to it by increasing the base nutrient. id say at least be on 1/3 strength by the end of week 2.

 

[Bruce Campbell]

• In general, yes - the theory is that "autos use the same proportions (i.e., ratios) of nutrients as photos, but need lower concentrations than photos." Keeping the ratios the same but at half-strength is a good starting point, then you can slowly increase if you do not see any problems. Using the same feed ratios can throw off the balances if your media or water has some nutrients they are otherwise providing, but that shouldn't be an issue with Pro-mix/coco and RO/demin water.
• EC values are an indirect measure. They are generally comparable among brands, but really depend on the specific components and ingredients of each brand. I suspect Canna's "don't go lower than 0.8 EC" is based primarily on using their ferts and (for the most part) can be ignored for other brands. EC is primarily used to final adjust dilution / strength based on a set nutrient ratio for a given regimen.
• Promix and coco should be pretty similar for you. Coco will likely have less water-holding capacity, so you may need to water more often. It may also have less CEC (essentially, nutrient-holding capacity), although some coco brands can have high CECs relatively close to peat.
• Promix includes myco and bacillus. Without these, the Liquid Weight may not provide as much benefit.
• Rezin and Vitathrive look to be B1 / amino acid additives, not nutrients. You could probably use those full strength if you want without any real issues, or reduce along with everything else.
• Massive looks to be their bloom booster (1-2-3 NPK), not a growth booster (based on Green Planet's product catalog here), so you'll still want to include it and scale along with everything else.
• The general guideline for K:Ca:Mg is to use them in a 4:2:1 elemental ratio to prevent antagonisms. If you work out the math, the Dual Fuel veg regimen is pretty high in Ca compared to K. If that has worked for you in the past, it shouldn't be an issue at half-strength. However, I would not add any additional cal-mag during the veg stage.
• During flowering, the Massive adds K but no Ca and Mg. It looks like 1.5 mL/L of their cal-mag during flower would give you a better K:Ca ratio (assuming you're using RO/demin water) - and, that's "full-strength", so scale accordingly. You may still be a bit low on Mg, so keep an eye out for any issues and dose with epsom salts if you see a problem.

 

[KootenayFullyAutomatic]

• In general, yes - the theory is that "autos use the same proportions (i.e., ratios) of nutrients as photos, but need lower concentrations than photos." Keeping the ratios the same but at half-strength is a good starting point, then you can slowly increase if you do not see any problems. Using the same feed ratios can throw off the balances if your media or water has some nutrients they are otherwise providing, but that shouldn't be an issue with Pro-mix/coco and RO/demin water.
• EC values are an indirect measure. They are generally comparable among brands, but really depend on the specific components and ingredients of each brand. I suspect Canna's "don't go lower than 0.8 EC" is based primarily on using their ferts and (for the most part) can be ignored for other brands. EC is primarily used to final adjust dilution / strength based on a set nutrient ratio for a given regimen.
• Promix and coco should be pretty similar for you. Coco will likely have less water-holding capacity, so you may need to water more often. It may also have less CEC (essentially, nutrient-holding capacity), although some coco brands can have high CECs relatively close to peat.
• Promix includes myco and bacillus. Without these, the Liquid Weight may not provide as much benefit.
• Rezin and Vitathrive look to be B1 / amino acid additives, not nutrients. You could probably use those full strength if you want without any real issues, or reduce along with everything else.
• Massive looks to be their bloom booster (1-2-3 NPK), not a growth booster (based on Green Planet's product catalog here), so you'll still want to include it and scale along with everything else.
• The general guideline for K:Ca:Mg is to use them in a 4:2:1 elemental ratio to prevent antagonisms. If you work out the math, the Dual Fuel veg regimen is pretty high in Ca compared to K. If that has worked for you in the past, it shouldn't be an issue at half-strength. However, I would not add any additional cal-mag during the veg stage.
• During flowering, the Massive adds K but no Ca and Mg. It looks like 1.5 mL/L of their cal-mag during flower would give you a better K:Ca ratio (assuming you're using RO/demin water) - and, that's "full-strength", so scale accordingly. You may still be a bit low on Mg, so keep an eye out for any issues and dose with epsom salts if you see a problem.

Thanks! Super helpful! Going to have to come back to this frequently I think.
Also here is some things I forgot to mention.

Starting water I’m using is tap water, comes out of the tap at around 47 us/cm (under 0.1 EC). So I was thinking that I would have to supplement cal/mag, but I did notice that dual fuel 1&2 do try to include some cal/mag.
But I have also been told to run the pro-cal if using coco, so I’ve been adding 2ml pro-cal per gallon of water, Which then brings the EC up from 47us to around 150us.
I then add the dual fuel and Vitathrive at half dose, bringing me up to around 500us.

basically how I’ve always done it in Promix, it worked and it didn’t, some plants did fine while others really struggle. Photoperiods seem to do best for me in Promix HP. I wasn’t using the pro-cal when I was in Promix as I read the lime in it should be enough. One plant did end up showing what I suspect to have been calcium deficiency in flower, but that ended up kinda fixing itself.

I do still have Promix left and have considered using it mixed with the coco, not sure if that would be a great idea or not. But mrs.funk420 does 70/30 coco/soil with floraflex and does great.

and I did suspect that with no myco or anything in coco the liquid weight won’t matter much, but maybe it would be a good idea if I were to get some myco like great white or something for next time?

also, I could just be getting myself down. But I do see lots of people growing some huge autos. But my first auto = 20 grams LMAO. 2nd one is almost ready, looks like it should be about the same. I do have a couple bigger lookin ones, some smaller looking. But I feel like if I get something I can be consistent with, and get some consistent information, then maybe I can get somewhat consistent results. Pretty much everything I read and was told about Promix HP and nutrients was totally different depending on the source/person, and I tried basically every method with a different plant (I have about 10 autos going because of this LMFAO)

Again, thanks a ton for the information, and to clarify, you’re saying that dual fuel SHOULD have enough CA/MG for me to not have to use their Cal/mag, correct?

This line up has thrown me for a loop, but really trying to figure it out since I have the the whole set (just 1L bottles) so once they run out, if I haven’t figured it out I may choose to switch to another brand that has a bit more of an autoflower customer base.

 

[KootenayFullyAutomatic]

Mate if im being honest, don't let any of the specifics chafe your balls. This is the way i would go about it. looking at the feed chart say for dual feul one. i see a minimum dose of 0.5ml per L and a maximum dose of 1.5ml per L. therefore i would start at a quarter of the maximum dose which is say 0.4ml per L approx (again dont be anal about it).

treat any base formulations like that just start at 1/4 of maximum on the feed chart with your autos your just trying to find a baseline feed you can feed the seedling that you know won't burn it, so you can attempt to optimize up from there. going from 1/4 strength to half strength within say a 3 week period. but always watch the plant's posture for droopiness and its tone for slight yellowing you may need to increment up faster if you see these signs.

with additives: identify which of the ingredients have NPKs and which don't.

for the ones that don't add these at half strength from the very very start of the grow. i don't care what it is (if you only have a small amount add at 1/4 so it lasts the entire run).

for the ones that have any additional NPKs just wait untill bloom before you add it in. that way you can let the plants bloom out on a nice simplistic feed, then add all the complicated boosters in at bloom because by this stage you should have all the base nutrients dialed in properly making it an deal stage to slowly introduce other additives again starting at 1/4 strength and slowly dialing it up.


My main advice is to be extremely vigilant on weeks 1 and 2. because the seedling is still partly running on its internal reserves if your feeding only 1/4 strength the seedling may only look healthy because its running on internal stores as soon as these run out your going to run into a deficiency quickly so know that if you see the leaves drooping or the tone lightening up be quick to respond to it by increasing the base nutrient. id say at least be on 1/3 strength by the end of week 2.

Thanks man, makes sense. Basically just gonna go 1/4 strength and go up from there weekly I think.

 

[KootenayFullyAutomatic]

Weeks 1, 2 and 3 look fine. You probably want to aim for an EC of about 1.2 for the whole grow, most tos are very light feeders. I'm guessing that the liquid weight is some kind of pk for flower. You could probably dose that at about 1ml per litre and just drop to the base a bit so you stay around 1.2 or 1.3.

The main ingredient in the Massive additive is triacontanol. This growth promotor is incredibly cheap if you source it elsewhere and is a lot more effective as a folair spray than watered into the root zone.

If you are using tap water you probably don't need the Cal mag unless you see a deficiency.

Thanks man!
Tap water comes in at around 45us (under 0.1 ec) so I’m not sure if I should supplement cal mag or not. And liquid weight is basically microbe food (pointless without some type of microbe present I’d assume) but I may just run it to get rid of it lol Massive bloom would be the main source of P and K which the feed chart already accounts for an increase in EC when it starts being added, so the chart recommends slightly less of the base nutrients then.

 

[budwise]

Thanks man!
Tap water comes in at around 45us (under 0.1 ec) so I’m not sure if I should supplement cal mag or not. And liquid weight is basically microbe food (pointless without some type of microbe present I’d assume) but I may just run it to get rid of it lol Massive bloom would be the main source of P and K which the feed chart already accounts for an increase in EC when it starts being added, so the chart recommends slightly less of the base nutrients then.

Actually. I suggest you do use the microbe food, microbe products are actually one of the few additives i endorse. Hydroponics are rarely sterile even if we try and make it, coco coir, is 100% not sterile the medium is usually teeming with fungus and other microbes so definitely feed them. It'll do you better than the PK in my opinion.

But yeah when your ready to add the PK dont follow the feed chart exactly but do be prepared to lower the concentration of base nutrient when you add it. Dont add too much of anything though, a little goes a long way

 

[harry_wilson]

Hey guys, Thank you so much. I have been meaning to use green planet dual fuel with coco air for a long time but couldn’t find the appropriate guidance until now. All the comments here are very helpful.

 

[Bruce Campbell]

Again, thanks a ton for the information, and to clarify, you’re saying that dual fuel SHOULD have enough CA/MG for me to not have to use their Cal/mag, correct?

K, Ca, and Mg compete with each other for plant uptake, so you want to manage them relative to each other. A typical industry practice is to provide them in a 4:2:1 elemental ratio (see here). I usually do the math to check elemental ppms.

During veg, the Green Planet schedule has about equal K and Ca. So, no more Ca is needed. If anything, you may want to tweak the schedule ratios to add more K.

During flower, the schedule adds Massive (which adds K) and reduces Dual Fuel 1&2 slightly (which lowers Ca). So, you may need some cal-mag and epsom salts to bring the Ca and Mg back into the right range.