Bob's search for the real White Widow with Dutch Passion's regular genetics

Day 31
Hey Growers & Blowers :toke:


Installed my fan yesterday before going to bed and while at it took some pictures and made a clip from the working fan.



I've got loads of nice shoots which will have to be trimmed very shortly.
1712266409370 _small.jpg


Don't wory, for each shoot I remove two will return in it's place :thumbsup:
1712266409376 _small.jpg


Meanwhile the yellow sticky trap has managed to catch many more gnats.
1712266409382 _small.jpg



Regards,

Bob :toke:
 
Day 31 - part two
Hey

So those pictures from this morning were actually from yesterday. I took some tonight and since I'm stoned as fuck and had the munchies, I though, why not share these pictures now, instead of tomorrow morning.

I can present you my clones. It looks like they are actually growing and except for those two on the left side, are looking nice and green. What do you think Antonio?
1712345280149 _small.jpg


Later this evening I took these, just after trimming the plants.
I found some leaves that weren't looking that great because of being to close to the light. So I trimmed each node back to the second node.
1712345280132 _small.jpg


Didn't water these after the trimjob. But I'll be checking the VPD this evening. To high and I'll slow down the ventilation a bit. So it's nice and cozy while they lick their wounds.
1712345280144 _small.jpg


I think that one in the left side of the picture, the second to last plant is a male. Just a feeling, but I think it's male...
1712345280137 _small.jpg


Some nice spots for shoots are left over. Lot's of nodes to develop into shoots which can be harvested for clones.
1712345280126 _small.jpg


The plants are at the stage where the nodes aren't side by side anymore. But rather in a step-by-step patern.
1712345280118 _small.jpg


That male again...
1712345280102 _small.jpg


This plant got a bump while I replaced the light. I only saw it a couple of days after it happened because of the wilting of the top part. But I was lucky and still had a nice piece left over to continue with. It's still way smaller then the rest of the plants, but that's ok. Given time it'll grow nice and big again.
1712345280092 _small.jpg




Regards,

Bob :toke:
 
Last edited:
Day 33 - first roots.
Hey Growers & Blowers :toke:

With proud & joy, I can show you the first succesful clones. :woohoo1:
1712521863642 _small.jpg


Some of them have just one root sticking out, but that just means, more is to come.
1712521863638 _small.jpg


I'm going to give the rest another week to see which ones can join the league of winners 🏆
1712521863633 _small.jpg


Only a small root pooking through, but that's enough. I openend up the vents from the seedling tray a tiny bit and watered the cubes with some of my DIY orgatrex. It's got loads of bennies and some carbs to feed them. I used the tiniest dose possible. ie, I've added 5ml/5L(1 gallon) water. This had been sitting in the canister since yesterday. So the bennies surely had their feed on the carbohydrates. The alfafameal added to this mix is to give the plants a tiny bit of N and some magnesium.
1712521863627 _small.jpg


So happy to see results!! ❤️
1712521863622 _small.jpg


Two days ago I photographed this one and it didn't show any roots. So I think in the next coming days I'll be finding more and more roots emerging from the cubes. A side note, the two clones that I marked in the previous post on the left side, are actually the same as the plant that got a bump from the light coming down, when I replaced the DIY light with the bought one. Either this is a special one or it's meant to be. We will see very soon. If both clones fail to root I'll be taking new clones alongside the male's I will clone for the next round. Just will have to keep an eye out for those two, I do want a tiny bit of harvest from them so I can sample the warez and do my selection :pass:
1712521863617 _small.jpg




I wish you all a fine evening/day/morning and hope to hear from you guys/gals very soon 👂



Regards,

Bob :toke:
 
Thanks for the clone points @DOA :cheers:

Great work there Bob.
Things really rolling along nicely at this point!
Yes, just need to find the right size of pots to put 23/24 or 46/48 plants in. If I had something to raise the wall of my tray with I could do one large 100L pot to put all the clones in. Found the right size of pot...It's a fabric one, but that shouldn't matter.
Garden-Fabric-Raised-Planting-Grow-Bag-Rectangular-Garden-Bed-Breathe-Felt-Planting-Pot-for-Vegetables-Flower.jpg_640x640.jpg_.webp



Then when the time comes, remove the males and be done with it...
 
Last edited:
Hey

So those pictures from this morning were actually from yesterday. I took some tonight and since I'm stoned as fuck and had the munchies, I though, why not share these pictures now, instead of tomorrow morning.

I can present you my clones. It looks like they are actually growing and except for those two on the left side, are looking nice and green. What do you think Antonio?
View attachment 1675589

Later this evening I took these, just after trimming the plants.
I found some leaves that weren't looking that great because of being to close to the light. So I trimmed each node back to the second node.
View attachment 1675580

Didn't water these after the trimjob. But I'll be checking the VPD this evening. To high and I'll slow down the ventilation a bit. So it's nice and cozy while they lick their wounds.
View attachment 1675581

I think that one in the left side of the picture, the second to last plant is a male. Just a feeling, but I think it's male...
View attachment 1675582

Some nice spots for shoots are left over. Lot's of nodes to develop into shoots which can be harvested for clones.
View attachment 1675583

The plants are at the stage where the nodes aren't side by side anymore. But rather in a step-by-step patern.
View attachment 1675584

That male again...
View attachment 1675586

This plant got a bump while I replaced the light. I only saw it a couple of days after it happened because of the wilting of the top part. But I was lucky and still had a nice piece left over to continue with. It's still way smaller then the rest of the plants, but that's ok. Given time it'll grow nice and big again.
View attachment 1675587



Regards,

Bob :toke:
Much better bro, healthy leaves standing upright, the way they should :thumbsup:
 
Hello Bob,
Such a long time!
Amazing my friend, they looks beautiful and your project proceed extraordinary.
Congratulations....!!!
I don't have words to say thanks to your work on white Whidow...your work means a lot to me ( more than you can image). I hope you could find your white Whidow and create your auto!!!

Luter Burbark use to say that during seedling stage is when you should start selecting the plants. The number of dented on the leave, the grow patterns, roots development together with the large population ( at least larger than the final flower and tested plants) is where you can ( and you should) make the difference.

If I can permit I would like to highlight the following:
- I would suggest also a torture garden of the selected middle selection. ( To me environmental variations and stress is where the top plants reveal themself)
- Please consider pedigree and bulk over backcrossing and inbreeding. Please. You can do it. Or at least consider the variability and implications. Monozygous is not the way Diversity and Heterozygous on large population is the way. ( Secret seed, California bay style).
The White Whidow in the '90 wasn't the same. It wasn't a specific cut. There were variations.
IMHO the most we back cross genetics and try to fix specific traits ( which are always few over multiple others) the most we reduce the diversity in the pool genetic of the plant, make it more .... Nowadays hybrids.

congratulations again and curios to see how everything proceed.
 
Hello Bob,
Such a long time!
Amazing my friend, they looks beautiful and your project proceed extraordinary.
Congratulations....!!!
I don't have words to say thanks to your work on white Whidow...your work means a lot to me ( more than you can image). I hope you could find your white Whidow and create your auto!!!
Hey Brother,

Long time no see. How's life been treating ya on the other side?
Thanks for the kind words!! :cheers: And yes, I've still got a long way ahead of me.


Luter Burbark use to say that during seedling stage is when you should start selecting the plants. The number of dented on the leave, the grow patterns, roots development together with the large population ( at least larger than the final flower and tested plants) is where you can ( and you should) make the difference.
My initial selection was based on the healthiest of the batch, the kind of serrations the leaves had and still have. It was a difficult one as all the seeds germinated and the sprouts were all super healthy. Still in the early stages I could see some which were looking healthier and more vigorous then others, some that, during the rub test, came out with onion, garlic and even one White Widow smell right out of the box. These were the one's that got selected.
I tried looking at the internodal distance, but because of my crappy DIY light plants stretched a heap during the first days that looking at them internodal distances were all out of whack. Maybe they will show up in the clones???


If I can permit I would like to highlight the following:
By all means, this isn't Switzerland :rofl:
Here one can discuss with one and other without fear of trolling :toke:


- I would suggest also a torture garden of the selected middle selection. ( To me environmental variations and stress is where the top plants reveal themself)
That's something on my todo list, but first I want to sex my P1's.
I've been reading up on ways to stress test my plants, because any plant that switches sex under dire stress will be out of the selection pool. Those aren't up to par to breed with.
What I've got so far are the following:
  • Switch the light cycle during flower
  • Give 'm to much heat during dark hours and cold during the lights on hours
  • Let the soil dry out
  • physically damage the plants by crushing the stems
What I won't do is let the tent be infested by mold or bugs. Those are a pain in the arse to get rid of and I don't want to compromise my project.


- Please consider pedigree and bulk over backcrossing and inbreeding.
I know where you're coming from with that line of thought. In the olden (photo) days people bought/grew clones and those came from a large selection of seeds that had to be grown out, selected and thinned out. For photo's it's still ok to have lot's of variation in the offspring, but that's not the direction I'm heading in.

In the end I will be selecting three females and three males to breed with. I just don't have the room nor time to go any bigger. I might do one run where I will do an open pollination, but then I would need to have plenty of headstash in storage to overcome that period, which are another three months for the seeds to be ready. Once I find out which plants are the ones that have what it takes I can always go back to my sealed envelope and see where to get new seeds. 💡

You might remember the second diagram I made, in which I showed the backcrossing program. The first diagram showed two lines (auto ♀ x P1 ♂ & P1 ♀ x auto ♂ ) and only at the end I would bring those two lines together. In the second, I mix the two lines every two breeding runs. There might be a third and a fourth diagram :eyebrows:
I will in actual fact have three couples to work with, just to keep vigor up to par, but those couples must have what I feel is the White Widow of olden days.


Monozygous is not the way Diversity and Heterozygous on large population is the way. ( Secret seed, California bay style).
The White Whidow in the '90 wasn't the same. It wasn't a specific cut. There were variations.
IMHO the most we back cross genetics and try to fix specific traits ( which are always few over multiple others) the most we reduce the diversity in the pool genetic of the plant, make it more .... Nowadays hybrids.
That's where I have to disagree... You can make a cultivar that has all sorts of pheno's/variations in the seed's end-product and so is heterozygous, but that's not what I'm after. Remember, the end result has to be grown from seed as one cannot clone an autoflower like you can with a photo. With tissue culture that's an whole other story, but I don't see many growers messing about with those techniques yet. But I digress...
What I want to make is the White Widow I smoked all those years ago, but in Auto format and then share those seeds the @Sawney_bean way. I love the way that guy thinks and even though we live in different parts of the world, I feel like I've know him whole my life.
But to share what I love with someone else on the other side of the world would mean, that what I send to those people has to be what I tell them it is and not give 'm ten different variations. That's where selection comes into play and to select is to eventually create homozygous gene pairs.
If I buy an auto seed, I expect it to be on par with the description. Take it to the extreme and let's say I don't want any more then two pheno's of this cultivar...Even more selection has to take place and the more one selects the more homozygous the cultivar becomes.
What I will do is keep a library of seeds from the entire journey...In that mindset diversity is still preserved, be it in my library...
But I'm getting ahead of myself as we're still a long way from a finished product, that's for sure :pass:


If you have any more ideas, please do share 'm here as I'm only one person and I didn't invent the lightbulb :bighug:


Regards,

Bob :toke:
 
Hey Brother,

Long time no see. How's life been treating ya on the other side?
Thanks for the kind words!! :cheers: And yes, I've still got a long way ahead of me.



My initial selection was based on the healthiest of the batch, the kind of serrations the leaves had and still have. It was a difficult one as all the seeds germinated and the sprouts were all super healthy. Still in the early stages I could see some which were looking healthier and more vigorous then others, some that, during the rub test, came out with onion, garlic and even one White Widow smell right out of the box. These were the one's that got selected.
I tried looking at the internodal distance, but because of my crappy DIY light plants stretched a heap during the first days that looking at them internodal distances were all out of whack. Maybe they will show up in the clones???



By all means, this isn't Switzerland :rofl:
Here one can discuss with one and other without fear of trolling :toke:



That's something on my todo list, but first I want to sex my P1's.
I've been reading up on ways to stress test my plants, because any plant that switches sex under dire stress will be out of the selection pool. Those aren't up to par to breed with.
What I've got so far are the following:
  • Switch the light cycle during flower
  • Give 'm to much heat during dark hours and cold during the lights on hours
  • Let the soil dry out
  • physically damage the plants by crushing the stems
What I won't do is let the tent be infested by mold or bugs. Those are a pain in the arse to get rid of and I don't want to compromise my project.



I know where you're coming from with that line of thought. In the olden (photo) days people bought/grew clones and those came from a large selection of seeds that had to be grown out, selected and thinned out. For photo's it's still ok to have lot's of variation in the offspring, but that's not the direction I'm heading in.

In the end I will be selecting three females and three males to breed with. I just don't have the room nor time to go any bigger. I might do one run where I will do an open pollination, but then I would need to have plenty of headstash in storage to overcome that period, which are another three months for the seeds to be ready. Once I find out which plants are the ones that have what it takes I can always go back to my sealed envelope and see where to get new seeds. 💡

You might remember the second diagram I made, in which I showed the backcrossing program. The first diagram showed two lines (auto ♀ x P1 ♂ & P1 ♀ x auto ♂ ) and only at the end I would bring those two lines together. In the second, I mix the two lines every two breeding runs. There might be a third and a fourth diagram :eyebrows:
I will in actual fact have three couples to work with, just to keep vigor up to par, but those couples must have what I feel is the White Widow of olden days.



That's where I have to disagree... You can make a cultivar that has all sorts of pheno's/variations in the seed's end-product and so is heterozygous, but that's not what I'm after. Remember, the end result has to be grown from seed as one cannot clone an autoflower like you can with a photo. With tissue culture that's an whole other story, but I don't see many growers messing about with those techniques yet. But I digress...
What I want to make is the White Widow I smoked all those years ago, but in Auto format and then share those seeds the @Sawney_bean way. I love the way that guy thinks and even though we live in different parts of the world, I feel like I've know him whole my life.
But to share what I love with someone else on the other side of the world would mean, that what I send to those people has to be what I tell them it is and not give 'm ten different variations. That's where selection comes into play and to select is to eventually create homozygous gene pairs.
If I buy an auto seed, I expect it to be on par with the description. Take it to the extreme and let's say I don't want any more then two pheno's of this cultivar...Even more selection has to take place and the more one selects the more homozygous the cultivar becomes.
What I will do is keep a library of seeds from the entire journey...In that mindset diversity is still preserved, be it in my library...
But I'm getting ahead of myself as we're still a long way from a finished product, that's for sure :pass:


If you have any more ideas, please do share 'm here as I'm only one person and I didn't invent the lightbulb :bighug:


Regards,

Bob :toke:
Regarding your diy light… I have a Phantom 315 w CMH laying around.
 
Back
Top