New Grower First Time Growing Anything! Featuring Twisted Tree and Mephisto in Coco/Perlite

[proustdreams]

Hello! I'm still waiting on the last few pieces of equipment to finish setting up my 4x4 grow tent and after that it's off to the races! Last week I ordered two packs of Lemon OG and Twisted Cookies from Twisted Tree which are expected to arrive by the end of this week. I've also been eyeing Mephisto beans for a LONG time now, 3-4 years, but I couldn't grow because of travel obligations. I am beyond excited to have ordered Wedding Cake, Sour Stomper, CDLC, and Mango Smile today. I still have not decided which strains I want to grow first! I prefer sativa effects, but I think I will be sticking with a hybrid or an indica strain because I have heard sativas are generally more finicky and more difficult to grow. This sort of sounds like bro-science, I'll let the more experienced growers tell me their opinions on the matter.

I will be documenting my first grow so that I can learn from any mistakes I will undoubtedly make and use it as a reference for future grows. I hope to receive some sage advice and diagnostic help from this community. I've already reached out to Parsing_Trees on Reddit, and he was gracious enough to answer many of my questions. I can't thank him enough for taking time out of his day to answer questions that I'm sure he's been asked a thousand times already.

Now for my set-up. My set-up is a bit wonky, as I initially wanted to do a 2x4, but changed to a 4x4 last minute. Here it is:

​

• Lights: Had I researched further I would have ordered kingbrites or meijius. We'll find out if these lights are up to the task.
  • EnFun 240 watt LED's LM301B diodes and meanwell driver on Amazon.​
  • Random Chinese 400 watt Bar lights with lm301b diodes. Yuanhui YH400B Bar Light on Amazon. This was an impulse buy. I hope it wasn't a mistake!
• Tent: 4x4
• Light Schedule: Probably 18/6 or 20/4. Undecided, but I don't think it matters all that much as long as I am attentive to the plant's needs and use a DLI chart as my general guideline. Correct me if I'm wrong!
• Strains: I can't decide! Everything looks amazing. Willing to consider your suggestions. I can choose between:
  • Twisted Tree: 2x Lemon OG, 2x Twisted Cookies. I chose these strains because they have Amnesia Haze and Lemon Haze genetics. Not a huge cookies fan, but I love me some haze.
  • Mephisto: 3x Mephisto's Wedding, 3x Sour Stomper, 1x CDLC, 1x Mango Smile
• Water
  • I have very poor quality well water. 500-700+ PPM and needs water softeners.
  • I installed a 5 stage RO system last week, the first day or two I was reading 200-300 PPM from the RO unit, but it's gradually gone down to 80-120. Hopefully it'll keep going down.
• Germination method:
  • I have no idea. So many ways to skin a cat, it's hard to pick which method to use. Lately I've been looking at Mephisto's DVD case method. Let me know if you suggest a different method. I'm all ears.
• Growing method:
  • Hand watering. I chose 5 gallon pots so I can get away with watering once or twice daily.
  • Training: This might be hubris, but I want to dive straight into training methods. Of course this is assuming I get out of the seedling stage in one piece.
    • I plan on topping two plants above the 4th/5th node if they are healthy during veg. I will probably do some light LST after to ensure an even canopy.
    • For the other two plants I want to try some heavy LST where you bend the main stem nearly sideways. I'll be following some of the techniques Bill Ward on YouTube uses.
    • Compare results
• Medium: 70/30 Coco/Perlite in 5 gallon fabric pots
  • Cocodelphia brand perlite from HTGsupply. The bag says its triple washed and buffered and according to the employee at HTGSupply he prefers Cocodelphia over Canna Coco because Cocodelphia is way cheaper and it's clean enough to use out of the bag. In the interest of keeping things simple, if the Coco seems not too powdery and the run-off PH and EC is in a good range, can I just skip the whole washing/buffering process?
• Nutes: The feeding chart on Dyna-Gro's website seems excessive. I read somewhere (I think ManO'Green) that as a general guideline 65% strength of feeding chart is sufficient for autos. I will follow this recommendation. I will try not to rely too much on a feeding chart for this grow. I will start low with nutes <200ppm during the seedling stage and try to respond according to what the plants are telling me. I hope some of you can help me with this process.
  • Dyna-Gro ProTekt
  • Dyna-Gro Foliage Pro during veg
  • Dyna-Gro Bloom for mid/late flower
  • CaliMagic on hand just in case.
  • Epsom Salts on hand just in case
  • Bennies/Microbial stuff because why not
  • Maintain a PH range between 5.6 and 6.2.
• Environment: I will be referencing a VPD and DLI chart to ensure my environment is on point.

Initially, I only relied on CocoForCannabis for information. Upon further research I am beginning to think they might be a little too dogmatic in their recommendations. The biggest point of contention I see between their recommendations and the community's is:

The importance of transplanting autos. CocoForCannabis seems to suggest that planting directly into a 5 gallon pot will set me up for failure and that transplanting is a necessary and, if done properly, low-risk method to ensure the best root development. Yet I've read many testimonials on this forum and reddit that transplanting is an unnecessary risk and planting directly into the final container will not hurt my results. I have jiffy pellets and fabric nursery pots on hand. Should I just ditch the transplant idea and go directly into 5 gallon pots?

​

Thank you to everyone who stopped by! I am excited to be a part of this amazing community.

 

[Growtogrow]

Hello! I'm still waiting on the last few pieces of equipment to finish setting up my 4x4 grow tent and after that it's off to the races! Last week I ordered two packs of Lemon OG and Twisted Cookies from Twisted Tree which are expected to arrive by the end of this week. I've also been eyeing Mephisto beans for a LONG time now, 3-4 years, but I couldn't grow because of travel obligations. I am beyond excited to have ordered Wedding Cake, Sour Stomper, CDLC, and Mango Smile today. I still have not decided which strains I want to grow first! I prefer sativa effects, but I think I will be sticking with a hybrid or an indica strain because I have heard sativas are generally more finicky and more difficult to grow. This sort of sounds like bro-science, I'll let the more experienced growers tell me their opinions on the matter.

I will be documenting my first grow so that I can learn from any mistakes I will undoubtedly make and use it as a reference for future grows. I hope to receive some sage advice and diagnostic help from this community. I've already reached out to Parsing_Trees on Reddit, and he was gracious enough to answer many of my questions. I can't thank him enough for taking time out of his day to answer questions that I'm sure he's been asked a thousand times already.

Now for my set-up. My set-up is a bit wonky, as I initially wanted to do a 2x4, but changed to a 4x4 last minute. Here it is:

​

• Lights: Had I researched further I would have ordered kingbrites or meijius. We'll find out if these lights are up to the task.
  • EnFun 240 watt LED's LM301B diodes and meanwell driver on Amazon.​
  • Random Chinese 400 watt Bar lights with lm301b diodes. Yuanhui YH400B Bar Light on Amazon. This was an impulse buy. I hope it wasn't a mistake!
• Tent: 4x4
• Light Schedule: Probably 18/6 or 20/4. Undecided, but I don't think it matters all that much as long as I am attentive to the plant's needs and use a DLI chart as my general guideline. Correct me if I'm wrong!
• Strains: I can't decide! Everything looks amazing. Willing to consider your suggestions. I can choose between:
  • Twisted Tree: 2x Lemon OG, 2x Twisted Cookies. I chose these strains because they have Amnesia Haze and Lemon Haze genetics. Not a huge cookies fan, but I love me some haze.
  • Mephisto: 3x Mephisto's Wedding, 3x Sour Stomper, 1x CDLC, 1x Mango Smile
• Water
  • I have very poor quality well water. 500-700+ PPM and needs water softeners.
  • I installed a 5 stage RO system last week, the first day or two I was reading 200-300 PPM from the RO unit, but it's gradually gone down to 80-120. Hopefully it'll keep going down.
• Germination method:
  • I have no idea. So many ways to skin a cat, it's hard to pick which method to use. Lately I've been looking at Mephisto's DVD case method. Let me know if you suggest a different method. I'm all ears.
• Growing method:
  • Hand watering. I chose 5 gallon pots so I can get away with watering once or twice daily.
  • Training: This might be hubris, but I want to dive straight into training methods. Of course this is assuming I get out of the seedling stage in one piece.
    • I plan on topping two plants above the 4th/5th node if they are healthy during veg. I will probably do some light LST after to ensure an even canopy.
    • For the other two plants I want to try some heavy LST where you bend the main stem nearly sideways. I'll be following some of the techniques Bill Ward on YouTube uses.
    • Compare results
• Medium: 70/30 Coco/Perlite in 5 gallon fabric pots
  • Cocodelphia brand perlite from HTGsupply. The bag says its triple washed and buffered and according to the employee at HTGSupply he prefers Cocodelphia over Canna Coco because Cocodelphia is way cheaper and it's clean enough to use out of the bag. In the interest of keeping things simple, if the Coco seems not too powdery and the run-off PH and EC is in a good range, can I just skip the whole washing/buffering process?
• Nutes: The feeding chart on Dyna-Gro's website seems excessive. I read somewhere (I think ManO'Green) that as a general guideline 65% strength of feeding chart is sufficient for autos. I will follow this recommendation. I will try not to rely too much on a feeding chart for this grow. I will start low with nutes <200ppm during the seedling stage and try to respond according to what the plants are telling me. I hope some of you can help me with this process.
  • Dyna-Gro ProTekt
  • Dyna-Gro Foliage Pro during veg
  • Dyna-Gro Bloom for mid/late flower
  • CaliMagic on hand just in case.
  • Epsom Salts on hand just in case
  • Bennies/Microbial stuff because why not
  • Maintain a PH range between 5.6 and 6.2.
• Environment: I will be referencing a VPD and DLI chart to ensure my environment is on point.

Initially, I only relied on CocoForCannabis for information. Upon further research I am beginning to think they might be a little too dogmatic in their recommendations. The biggest point of contention I see between their recommendations and the community's is:

The importance of transplanting autos. CocoForCannabis seems to suggest that planting directly into a 5 gallon pot will set me up for failure and that transplanting is a necessary and, if done properly, low-risk method to ensure the best root development. Yet I've read many testimonials on this forum and reddit that transplanting is an unnecessary risk and planting directly into the final container will not hurt my results. I have jiffy pellets and fabric nursery pots on hand. Should I just ditch the transplant idea and go directly into 5 gallon pots?

​

Thank you to everyone who stopped by! I am excited to be a part of this amazing community.

Well welcome to AFN the most informative cannabis growing website on the planet
I see your newcomer.
Welcome to afn everything you're doing looks great. You're on the right path and very thorough. I look forward to watching you grow.

Can't wait to see you bust your growing cherry

 

[St. Tom]

i think you have every box ticked here and thanks for posting a journal here

 

[Olderfart]

Welcome to the grow gang mate, I'll pull up a chair. I will be doing a coco grow later in the fall, so I will be interested in how you make out.

As to the transplanting issue, I've always done it, at least I have if the final home was a normal sized pot. For solos or yogurt containers, no transplant would be useful, although I still start them in peat plugs. In coco, I think you could get on well without transplanting with a bit of care because coco is forgiving of overwatering which IMO is the early risk with seedlings. If you overwet soil or peat medium, it is difficult to fix because it will stay waterlogged and oxygen deprived for a long time. When seedlings are small, they do not transpire enough to help dry the pot out. By comparison, I think overwatering a seedling in coco would be very unlikely if even a bit of care is used because the medium drains so well and maintains oxygen levels accordingly.

All considered, I expect my sequence for the next grow will be:
1. scarify seed in sandpaper tube
2. soak in 1.5% peroxide in distilled water for 2-4 hours
3. wet paper towel until tap root extends a half inch or so,
4. seeds root down into peat plugs with the bottom net cut off
5. As soon as tap root shows, put plugs into solo cups of coco. If grow will stay in solos, that's it. If going to larger pots, solos will be split and have removeable bottoms to facilitate transplant without disturbing the medium.
6. If moving into larger pots, do the transplant as soon as roots start showing out the drain holes of the solos, or when leaves extend past the rim of the solo.

My thinking behind this fuss is:

- most seeds don't need scarifying, but some seem to, and I don't think it can do any harm, so I do them all - it only takes a few seconds.
- peroxide soak likely charges the seed with oxygen, and kills any pathogens on the seed surface, and wets the seed coat quickly. When I soak the seed, I place a small scrap of paper towel over it to ensure early soaking of all sides of the seed coat rather than letting it float for a while with a dry side up .
- doing extra seeds at the paper towel, peat plug and solo stages permits selection of seedlings for vigor or phenotype (I have lots of seeds because I reverse strains that I like).
- starting in peat plugs and solos allows easy temperature and humidity control throughout the seedling stage by using a thermostatically controlled seedling heat mat in an insulated germination/seedling box. The entire process from the peroxide soak to final transplant is done at ~30C inside the germination/seedling box. Final pots in the growdrobe are equilibrated to the same temperature and nute EC before transplanting.

If I were doing a larger grow, I might not bother with the fuss when growing in coco, I'd just get the grow space and nute charged pots up to temperature, and pop in the seeds. In a large grow, a few extra full sized pots to account for the odd slowpoke would be no biggie, and you could also just put extra seeds in individual pots and weed out the weakest after they show their stuff.

Who knows, by the time I get going with the grow, I might change my mind, in which case, it will be the sandpaper tube, and multiple seeds in each final pot, one of which will remain after culling. OTOH, I don't mind fussing with the plants, so I expect to do the whole process.
Good luck with your grow.

 

[proustdreams]

@Olderfart Thanks for your reply! It was very helpful. I think I'm going to start my seedlings using a similar method. A little peroxide soak, then into paper towels. I was considering planting straight into my 5 gallon bags in the interest of keeping things simple, but I already have a heating mat, jiffy pellets, and 5"x5" nursery bags so I think I will take a few extra steps. I am more confident in this method than properly watering seedlings in a 5 gallon grow bag.

My Twisted Tree seeds arrived today! If anyone was curious about how they distribute freebies, I ordered 2x Lemon OG and 2x Cookies directly from their website. I was pleasantly surprised to receive 3 Twisted Cookies seeds, 2 Lemon OG, and an additional 2 Crinkle Cut freebies! 7 seeds and paid for 4! I'd assume they're even more generous when you buy larger volumes.

 

[St. Tom]

@Olderfart Thanks for your reply! It was very helpful. I think I'm going to start my seedlings using a similar method. A little peroxide soak, then into paper towels. I was considering planting straight into my 5 gallon bags in the interest of keeping things simple, but I already have a heating mat, jiffy pellets, and 5"x5" nursery bags so I think I will take a few extra steps. I am more confident in this method than properly watering seedlings in a 5 gallon grow bag.

My Twisted Tree seeds arrived today! If anyone was curious about how they distribute freebies, I ordered 2x Lemon OG and 2x Cookies directly from their website. I was pleasantly surprised to receive 3 Twisted Cookies seeds, 2 Lemon OG, and an additional 2 Crinkle Cut freebies! 7 seeds and paid for 4! I'd assume they're even more generous when you buy larger volumes.

I start all my girls in root riots then directly into solo cups as @Olderfart said its a great way to start them to get you used to watering plants as impossible to overwater where a tiny seedling in a big pot is

 

[JP1]

Welcome @proustdreams ! 5 gallons of coco is a lot, you'll be fine watering once a day... Make sure you test the coco and don't assume. If it's good, give it a good soak in a bucket of ph'd feed around 250ppm overnight then put it on your tent to drain and come to temp. Just put the seed right in it, no need to transplant, and just mist around where the seed is for the 1st week. Mine go straight from the tubes into the pots. Gonna definitely need the calmag with ro and coco and a quality pH pen and decent ec meter are kinda essential for coco growing

 

[proustdreams]

@Jerseyphresh1 Thank you! I will make sure to soak the coco overnight and allowing the soil to come to temp in the tent didn’t even occur to me.

I have a PH pen and EC meters on hand. RO water is reading 80-90 ppm atm, it’s been two weeks since installation and I’ve purged the system multiple times. I don’t think my water is gonna be any cleaner, seems like 70-100 ppm will ge my baseline ppm.

I found this feeding schedule on ICMag. Any thoughts? I know experienced growers don't necessarily follow strict feeding schedules and are able to respond to the plants needs, but as a first time grower I think I need the training wheels. Does this schedule seem like a decent place to start? I will be relying more on PPM/EC (~65% of recommendations) to guide my feeding schedule rather than tsp in this chart.

 

[PeaceLove&Buds]

I use coco also (Royal Tupur) and I love it because it takes over/under watering out of the picture for me. I know that I have to water/feed every day to runoff, preferably about 20%. Easy peasy! Im still learning myself and just harvested 6 plants. My germination method is just soaking the beans in a cup of distilled water for 24 hours then drop em in the final pot. You sound ready to roll man, I’ll pass on the first tip I received in regards to coco which is aim to get ph at 5.8-6.2 Good luck and happy growing!

 

[JP1]

I've never used

@Jerseyphresh1 Thank you! I will make sure to soak the coco overnight and allowing the soil to come to temp in the tent didn’t even occur to me.

I have a PH pen and EC meters on hand. RO water is reading 80-90 ppm atm, it’s been two weeks since installation and I’ve purged the system multiple times. I don’t think my water is gonna be any cleaner, seems like 70-100 ppm will ge my baseline ppm.

I found this feeding schedule on ICMag. Any thoughts? I know experienced growers don't necessarily follow strict feeding schedules and are able to respond to the plants needs, but as a first time grower I think I need the training wheels. Does this schedule seem like a decent place to start? I will be relying more on PPM/EC (~65% of recommendations) to guide my feeding schedule rather than tsp in this chart.

I've never used those nutes so can't really say. I'd start with figuring out the ppm for each of them per gallon, so you really know. And figure it out by weight, since you're gonna probably have to decrease it. I check nutes in a bucket l. So put 4 gallons of ro in a clean 5 gallon bucket and add 4 grams of nutes and see what you get for each element and write it down, subtracting the starting water ppm. That will give you a baseline of ppm/gallon. This will let you know how much calmag you need for each gallon so you can add it to your mix 1st and not guess. You want to add calmag 1st to your base water and let it sit before mixing anything else in and it will keep you from chasing pH fluctuations. You want to keep the ratios to what they say. Sounds confusing but if you know that a gram of proteckt is like 100ppm and a gram of foliage is 100ppm, then you'll know where to be to make a bucket... Does that make sense?