Micorrhizae discussion - do we need more than one?

[DTOM420]

i was listening to a DudeGrows show featuring Jeff Lowenfels, the author of “Teaming with Microbes” and several other prominent books on the microbiology of organic gardening. He made a statement that surprised me and has me wondering whether I’ve been wasting money on some high-priced Mycorrhizal products - he said that there is only ONE mycorrhizal fungus strain that cannabis works with:
Rhizophagus Intraradicies. He said (and I tend to believe the expert) that the other strains will not create the the symbiotic relationship with a cannabis plant that we’re all seeking to increase nutrient uptake. It was his assertion that each plant variety has a certain Mico that it works with and that throwing the others at them serves no purpose and that they can actually compete with each other’s which implies that these multiple strain products could possibly be limiting the effectiveness. Apparently,
Rhizophagus Intraradicies is the same micorrhizal fungus that works with pumpkins. So, for his own personal cannabis grows he uses spores from a well known pumpkin grower in the northeastern United States. When I looked the guy up I found that his
Rhizophagus Intraradicies is WAY less expensive than the Great White I’ve been using. A 5lb bag is $65-70 and you only need 1tbs per gallon, I think.

I’m wondering how many other growers on AFN have heard this and whether anyone else has tried
Rhizophagus Intraradicies by itself; and what their findings/results are? Has anyone else tried Wow Pumpkin Pro Micorrhizae, specifically? https://wallacewow.com/collections/frontpage/products/best-mycorrhizae-for-sale-5-10-20-pounds

Here’s the DudeGrows video:


I’m not sure jumping down the organic gardening rabbit hole was a good idea, lol! It’s got my OCD in overdrive. Lmao!

 

[MickJ]

I just use my local garden centre version, but what you said did make me have a read. I recycle my soil so I am thinking the fungi is already there.

Sent from my comfy chair.
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[DTOM420]

I just use my local garden centre version, but what you said did make me have a read. I recycle my soil so I am thinking the fungi is already there.

Sent from my comfy chair.
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Did the garden center version include that particular strain? What they were saying is that if you add ANY other type of mico to soil for cannabis, you’re just wasting your money and getting ZERO of what you’re trying to get, effect-wise. I know Great White includes rizophagus but apparently all the other strains they mix in are pointless for my purposes.

 

[cloudsosmoke]

Quick post

Saw this
Kis Organic’s podcast has interview with your pumpkin grower Ron Wallace

https://www.kisorganics.com/pages/cannabis-cultivation-and-science-podcast-episode-31

 

[DTOM420]

Quick post

Saw this
Kis Organic’s podcast has interview with your pumpkin grower Ron Wallace

https://www.kisorganics.com/pages/cannabis-cultivation-and-science-podcast-episode-31

Thanks! I’ll check it out! I was thinking about ordering some as soon as I start running low on the jar of Great White I’m currently using. Since GW has rizophagus intraradicies in it and I already paid for it, I’m going to finish it.

 

[Eyes on Fire]

Essentially its all marketing.Not saying they wont do your garden some good.Yet there is not any wettable powder of granule inoculant thats better than a well made IMO. all you need is a basket built for the woods.then you ideally need a Bamboo area where thats growing and set a basket there too thats build for collecting IMO. mix the two and voila.Instant bassassery money cant touch. short of paying someone else to do it.LOL but thats the best inoculant around. one will work(woodland typically),yet its a balance like AACTs actually.fungal and bacterial.same thing here.

 

[Son of Hobbes]

Essentially its all marketing.Not saying they wont do your garden some good.Yet there is not any wettable powder of granule inoculant thats better than a well made IMO. all you need is a basket built for the woods.then you ideally need a Bamboo area where thats growing and set a basket there too thats build for collecting IMO. mix the two and voila.Instant bassassery money cant touch. short of paying someone else to do it.LOL but thats the best inoculant around. one will work(woodland typically),yet its a balance like AACTs actually.fungal and bacterial.same thing here.

We just had a recent discussion in staff with @Waira and @Slater about myco (talking about mammoth P, recharge, etc.) Trying to figure out what the differences are (and why some cost so damn much money.)

 

[Eyes on Fire]

marketing and simple sciences. cant beat nature. yet the Mammoth is a little different than nature.its an engineered bacterium that makes P soluable in a more natural form over chleated foods. life makes it more usable and friendlier to any natural environment.Science thats why mammoth is expensive.but most all others can be made if you wanna put in the work.most dont and I cant really.soooo.LOL but more power to thise who can. that marketing is stupid. this has 10 kinds of this.well this one has 3 to 5 kinds of this and eleventeen of the other thing.LMAO! its abalancing act.thats why most typically need more than a single kind to prevent issues in the soil and diseases and parasites taking hold easily.nature is best.however for quick and easy thats wht most pay for. the desire to do little or nothing.thats where the money is going.IMO of course.

 

[MickJ]

Here's what I throw in. It was cheap enough. Think I might get some imo from my bamboo leaf mold and throw in my composter.

Sent from my comfy chair.
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[DTOM420]

We just had a recent discussion in staff with @Waira and @Slater about myco (talking about mammoth P, recharge, etc.) Trying to figure out what the differences are (and why some cost so damn much money.)

It makes sense to me that these companies mix all these varieties together if they are marketing to gardeners growing a variety of types of plants and vegetables because each one (variety) has one or two strains it may work with and that gardener can have ONE product that they can use to inoculate all the plants in their garden. However, for the cannabis grower who doesn’t do ANY other gardening, the cost associated with that convenience is appearing to be a rip off, to me. Or, I guess I should say, “a less than optimal level of cost effectiveness.”

Most of these “grow stores” and websites are marketing to a general gardener customer base. So, it makes sense to have a broad-use product the push. Not to mention that at that high price point I’m guessing there’s plenty of room for everybody to make a good profit. Lol! I need to find the most cost effective way for myself, though.

I’m not far enough into my understanding of the microbiology to spout a definitive statement but I read something in “Teaming with microbes” last night that discussed the microbial process that facilitates the uptake of phosphorous by plants. I believe this is controlled, as you said, by a particular bacteria or fungus (can’t remember which but pretty sure it was a bacteria) and that as long as it’s present in rhizosphere in sufficient quantities, your plant will get all the phosphorous it needs. When I figure out what that microbe is, I’ll report back. But I think there are far less expensive ways of insuring it’s in there than buying Mammoth P. I’m down to try it, don’t get me wrong. I requested a free sample. Lol. But, if I can find another source, like the IMR tha @Rollin_along mentioned or some fermentation process you can do at hone, I think you’d have identical results as using Mammoth P. I’m pretty sure that’s all they’re doing - growing it, packaging it, marketing it and selling it at a premium. Nothing wrong with that AT ALL. It’s just that I’d like to save the money (and help others to) if I can.

I’m guessing that some of the price difference between similar products has to do with the process they use and the quality of the microbes they are able to deliver to your soil by the time you get them and apply them. In order to maintain viability of more microbes, maybe their process is more costly. But I think the fact that they grow all these various strains and incorporate them into one product is raising their manufacturing costs. But, again, for cannabis we only need ONE strain of myco - the others do NOTHING for our particular needs and the other strains can actually compete against each other AND the one we want; making it less effective than it might otherwise be. So, I’d think inoculating heavily with ONLY Rhizophagus Interaradicies would actually produce even better results! Finally, the cost is related to marketing. It’s expense and probably a determined effort to position themselves as a “premium” product. When you see 2 similar products on the shelf and one is 2X the cost of the other, the natural assumption is that the more expensive product must be “better!” Lol. Add to that, a retailer telling you it’s “the best” because it has his biggest product margin; and VOILA! it’s the one many consumers reach for. If it works it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy of being “the best.” Lol!